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		<title>You Are Astonished. I Am Surprised</title>
		<link>http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/05/17/dictionary-kiss/</link>
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		<pubDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 01:48:11 +0000</pubDate>
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				<category><![CDATA[Chauncey Depew]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Noah Webster]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Samuel Johnson]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[Noah Webster? Samuel Johnson? Chauncey Depew? Apocryphal? Dear Quote Investigator: There is a ribald anecdote about one of the world&#8217;s greatest dictionary makers that I would like you to explore. The tale claims that the lexicographer Noah Webster had a &#8230; <a href="http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/05/17/dictionary-kiss/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
				<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Noah Webster? Samuel Johnson? Chauncey Depew? Apocryphal?</strong></p>
<p><a href="http://quoteinvestigator.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/websterkiss01.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-6296" alt="websterkiss01" src="http://quoteinvestigator.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/websterkiss01.jpg" width="507" height="210" /></a><strong>Dear Quote Investigator:</strong> There is a ribald anecdote about one of the world&#8217;s greatest dictionary makers that I would like you to explore. The tale claims that the lexicographer Noah Webster had a secret libertine inclination. One day his wife returned home and was shocked to discover him caressing and osculating the chambermaid.</p>
<p>The wife cried out, &#8220;Noah! I am surprised!&#8221; The stunned man&#8217;s reflexive thought patterns were immediately engaged, and he replied, &#8220;My dear, you must study our beautiful language more closely. It is I who am surprised. You are astonished.&#8221;</p>
<p>There is a rival version of this story featuring another famous dictionary creator Samuel Johnson as the philanderer. Johnson lived between 1709 and 1784; Webster lived between 1758 and 1843. I would like to know which man was the true Lothario.</p>
<p><strong>Quote Investigator:</strong> Tracing an anecdote is a difficult task, but <strong>QI</strong> will make an attempt and present a snapshot of the results. The earliest discovered instance was printed in a newspaper in 1896. The raconteur was Chauncey Depew, a famous after-dinner speaker: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1896 April 21, Daily Iowa Capital, A New One by Chauncey, Quote Page 6, Column 5, Des Moines, Iowa. (NewspaperArchive)" id="return-note-6294-1" href="#note-6294-1"><sup>1</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>At a recent dinner in New York a new story was sprung by Chauncey M. Depew. Speaking of the importance of humor, Mr. Depew declared that Noah Webster, though a lexicographer, was humorist. &#8220;His wife,&#8221; Chauncey went on to say, &#8220;caught him one day kissing the cook.</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8216;Noah,&#8217; she exclaimed, &#8216;I&#8217;m surprised!&#8217;</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8216;Madam,&#8217; he replied, &#8216;you have not studied carefully our glorious language. It is I who am surprised. You are astounded.&#8217;&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>In 1903 &#8220;Everybody&#8217;s Magazine&#8221; published a curious version of the story in which Webster&#8217;s transgression was not carnal. Instead, his wife was unhappy with the informality of his attire. This bowdlerized version was fit for everybody as suggested by the magazine name: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1903 September, Everybody&#8217;s Magazine, With &#8220;Everybody&#8217;s&#8221; Publishers, A Surprising Letter, Quote Page 419, Column 2, Volume 9, The Ridgway-Thayer Company, New York. (Google Books full view) link" id="return-note-6294-2" href="#note-6294-2"><sup>2</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>A story is told of Noah Webster, the dictionary maker, who one day was found by his wife at dinner without coat or collar while entertaining two guests. His wife&#8217;s sudden and unexpected return and entrance to the room brought those present to their feet. &#8220;I am surprised,&#8221; said Mrs. Webster. And Mr. Webster rejoined, &#8220;My dear, I am surprised—you are astonished.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>The originator of this joke was not a linguist, and its construction was based on an artifice. The rationale of the humorous rejoinder hinged on a sharp delineation between the meanings of words such as: surprised, astounded, and astonished. Yet the definitions given in the 1830 edition of Noah Webster&#8217;s dictionary revealed overlapping denotations: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1830, An American Dictionary of the English Language: Exhibiting the Origin, Orthography, Pronunciation, and Definitions of Words by Noah Webster, (Abridged from the Quarto edition by the author), Entry SURPRISE: Page 813, Entry ASTONISH and ASTOUND: Page 58, Published by S. Converse, New York. (Google Books full view) link" id="return-note-6294-3" href="#note-6294-3"><sup>3</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>SURPRISE v. t. 1. To come or fall upon suddenly and unexpectedly; to take unawares. 2. To strike with wonder or astonishment. 3. To confuse; to throw the mind into disorder by something suddenly presented to the view or to the mind.</p>
<p>SURPRISED pp. Come upon or taken unawares; struck with something novel or unexpected.</p>
<p>ASTONISH v. t. To stun or strike dumb with sudden fear, terror, surprise, or wonder; to amaze; to confound with some sudden passion.</p>
<p>ASTONISHED pp. Amazed; confounded with fear, surprise, or admiration</p>
<p>ASTOUND, v. t. To astonish; to strike dumb with amazement.</p></blockquote>
<p>Here are additional selected citations in chronological order.</p>
<p><span id="more-6294"></span>By 1904 another version was placed in circulation via &#8220;The Idler&#8221; magazine that featured informal clothing and drinking instead of kissing: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1903 October to 1904 March, The Idler, Volume 24, Section: The Idlers&#8217; Club by Robert Barr, Subtilities of Meaning, Quote Page 560, Column 2, Chatto &amp; Windus, London. (Google Books full view) link" id="return-note-6294-4" href="#note-6294-4"><sup>4</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>A very good story explanatory of the correct meaning of words is told of Noah Webster, the learned compiler of America&#8217;s first big dictionary. Noah was an unconventional man who loved his unconventional friends, but his wife was a stickler for propriety, and so the somewhat henpecked Webster rarely got a good chance of making merry with his cronies.</p>
<p>Once the good lady left home on what was supposed to be a prolonged visit, but some interference caused her to return unexpectedly, and she found her husband in his shirt-sleeves, holding carnival over strong waters in company with a number of friends also in their shirt-sleeves. The shocked lady gazed at this disreputable gathering for a moment in silence then she said:—</p>
<p>&#8220;Well, I am surprised!&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;No, my dear,&#8221; said the lexicographer, mildly, &#8220;I am surprised; you are astonished.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>The anecdotes above all reported on the supposed behavior of Noah Webster, but by 1906 a variant with Samuel Johnson was published in a periodical called the &#8220;Midland Druggist&#8221; based in Columbus, Ohio: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1906 January, Midland Druggist [Interstate Druggist], Volume 7, Number 5, Sense and Nonsense: The Difference, Page 446, Column 1, Midland Publishing Company, Columbus, Ohio. (Google Books full view) link" id="return-note-6294-5" href="#note-6294-5"><sup>5</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>The famous Dr. Johnson was discovered one day by Mrs. Johnson kissing one of her serving maids.</p>
<p>&#8220;Why, Dr. Johnson,&#8221; said his wife, &#8220;I am surprised.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;No,&#8221; said the recreant husband, &#8220;that is not exactly right dear. I am surprised; you are astonished!&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>In 1909 the taboo act committed by Webster was &#8220;pressing the hand&#8221; of a &#8220;pretty cook&#8221; instead of kissing a maid. <a class="simple-footnote" title="1909 December 28, The Post-Standard, A Noah Webster Joke, (Acknowledgement to The Philadelphia Record), Quote Page 4, Column 7, Syracuse, New York. (NewspaperArchive)" id="return-note-6294-6" href="#note-6294-6"><sup>6</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Prof. Robert Herrick, of the University of Chicago, desired to point out to a young sonneteer the difference between the words &#8220;astonish&#8221; and &#8220;surprise.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Noah Webster,&#8221; Prof. Herrlck said, &#8220;was once caught by his wife in the act of pressing the hand of the pretty cook.</p>
<p>&#8220;The cook, blushing like a rose, fled at once to her kitchen. Mrs. Webster said in a sad, tremulous voice:</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8216;Why, Noah, I&#8217;m surprised.&#8217;</p>
<p>&#8220;But the philologist, from, over his glasses at his wife, answered reprovingly:</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8216;Madam, you have not studied our glorious language as you should. It&#8217;s I who am surprised. You are astonished.&#8217;&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>In 1921 an instance was published in which neither Webster nor Johnson appeared. A couple with the generic names John and Mary exchanged the lines of dialog: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1921, Proceedings of the Illinois Pharmaceutical Association, (Forty-Second Annual Meeting held at Chicago, Illinois on June 21 to 23, 1921), (Remark by W. H. H. Miller, Director of the Department of Registration and Education of the State of Illinois), Quote Page 29, Illinois Pharmaceutical Association. (Google Books full view) link" id="return-note-6294-7" href="#note-6294-7"><sup>7</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>It seems a wife and man, after living together some five years, decided to adopt into the family a help-mate—a very beautiful maid. One day, as the wife was passing through the parlor, she found the beautiful maid sitting upon the knee of her husband. She drew the curtain aside and said: &#8220;John, I am surprised.&#8221; He said: &#8220;No, Mary, you are not. You are astonished. I am surprised.&#8221; (Laughter.)</p></blockquote>
<p>In 1930 the mass-circulation periodical Reader&#8217;s Digest printed a version with Samuel Johnson being confronted by another husband: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1930 August, Reader&#8217;s Digest, Volume 17, Repartee, Start Page 381, Quote Page 382, The Reader’s Digest Association. (Verified on paper)" id="return-note-6294-8" href="#note-6294-8"><sup>8</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>It is stated that Dr. Samuel Johnson, the lexicographer, while caressing another man&#8217;s wife, was unexpectedly caught in the act by the woman&#8217;s husband.</p>
<p>&#8220;Dr. Johnson,&#8221; he exclaimed, &#8220;I am surprised.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;No,&#8221; said Johnson, &#8220;you are astonished; I am surprised.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>In 1971 the anecdote appeared in &#8220;Isaac Asimov&#8217;s Treasury of Humor&#8221; with the comment that it was &#8220;possibly apocryphal&#8221;. Asimov ascribed the following punchline to Noah Webster: &#8220;I am surprised, my dear. You are merely astonished.&#8221; He also attempted to explain the reasoning behind Webster&#8217;s statement: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1971 copyright, Isaac Asimov&#8217;s Treasury of Humor, Joke Number 241, Quote Page 169, Houghton Mifflin, New York. (Google Books Preview)" id="return-note-6294-9" href="#note-6294-9"><sup>9</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>The point of this joke has, alas, grown feeble with the years. Nowadays, the proper meaning of surprised (caught unprepared) has become secondary, with Mrs. Webster&#8217;s improper meaning (astonished) in universal use.</p></blockquote>
<p>In conclusion, the earliest known evidence of this jape dates to 1896, and <strong>QI</strong> thinks that it probably was created after both Noah Webster and Samuel Johnson were already dead. Currently, Chauncey Depew is the leading candidate for originator of the tale. The Webster version appeared about a decade before the Johnson version in 1906. These details may change if additional citations are discovered.</p>
<p>(Special thanks to Daniel Gackle who sent the query that inspired the formulation of this question and motivated this exploration. Thanks also to Sylvia Milne who commented about this anecdote on a mailing list.)</p>
<div class="simple-footnotes"><p class="notes">Notes:</p><ol><li id="note-6294-1"> 1896 April 21, Daily Iowa Capital, A New One by Chauncey, Quote Page 6, Column 5, Des Moines, Iowa. (NewspaperArchive) <a href="#return-note-6294-1">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6294-2"> 1903 September, Everybody&#8217;s Magazine, With &#8220;Everybody&#8217;s&#8221; Publishers, A Surprising Letter, Quote Page 419, Column 2, Volume 9, The Ridgway-Thayer Company, New York. (Google Books full view) <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=mG0XAQAAIAAJ&amp;q=%22or+collar%22#v=snippet&amp;">link</a>  <a href="#return-note-6294-2">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6294-3"> 1830, An American Dictionary of the English Language: Exhibiting the Origin, Orthography, Pronunciation, and Definitions of Words by Noah Webster, (Abridged from the Quarto edition by the author), Entry SURPRISE: Page 813, Entry ASTONISH and ASTOUND: Page 58, Published by S. Converse, New York. (Google Books full view) <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=9ZUVAAAAYAAJ&amp;q=%22with+something+novel%22#v=snippet&amp;">link</a>  <a href="#return-note-6294-3">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6294-4"> 1903 October to 1904 March, The Idler, Volume 24, Section: The Idlers&#8217; Club by Robert Barr, Subtilities of Meaning, Quote Page 560, Column 2, Chatto &amp; Windus, London. (Google Books full view) <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=B65MAAAAMAAJ&amp;q=+lexicographer#v=snippet&amp;">link</a>  <a href="#return-note-6294-4">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6294-5"> 1906 January, Midland Druggist [Interstate Druggist], Volume 7, Number 5, Sense and Nonsense: The Difference, Page 446, Column 1, Midland Publishing Company, Columbus, Ohio. (Google Books full view) <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=bclNAAAAMAAJ&amp;q=recreant#v=snippet&amp;">link</a>  <a href="#return-note-6294-5">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6294-6"> 1909 December 28, The Post-Standard, A Noah Webster Joke, (Acknowledgement to The Philadelphia Record), Quote Page 4, Column 7, Syracuse, New York. (NewspaperArchive) <a href="#return-note-6294-6">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6294-7"> 1921, Proceedings of the Illinois Pharmaceutical Association, (Forty-Second Annual Meeting held at Chicago, Illinois on June 21 to 23, 1921), (Remark by W. H. H. Miller, Director of the Department of Registration and Education of the State of Illinois), Quote Page 29, Illinois Pharmaceutical Association. (Google Books full view) <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=zAXrAAAAMAAJ&amp;q=maid#v=snippet&amp;">link</a>  <a href="#return-note-6294-7">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6294-8"> 1930 August, Reader&#8217;s Digest, Volume 17, Repartee, Start Page 381, Quote Page 382, The Reader’s Digest Association. (Verified on paper) <a href="#return-note-6294-8">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6294-9"> 1971 copyright, Isaac Asimov&#8217;s Treasury of Humor, Joke Number 241, Quote Page 169, Houghton Mifflin, New York. (Google Books Preview) <a href="#return-note-6294-9">&#8617;</a></li></ol></div>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>The Budget Should Be Balanced; The Treasury Should Be Refilled</title>
		<link>http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/05/15/cicero-budget/</link>
		<comments>http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/05/15/cicero-budget/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 May 2013 20:12:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Marcus Tullius Cicero]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Taylor Caldwell]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Otto E. Passman]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[Marcus Tullius Cicero? Taylor Caldwell? Otto E. Passman? Apocryphal? Dear Quote Investigator: In 2011 a host on the cable channel CNN said this: Is America still the land of opportunity, or is it Rome before the fall? You decide. Cicero &#8230; <a href="http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/05/15/cicero-budget/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
				<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Marcus Tullius Cicero? Taylor Caldwell? Otto E. Passman? Apocryphal?</strong><br />
<a href="http://quoteinvestigator.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/pillariron02.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-6281" alt="pillariron02" src="http://quoteinvestigator.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/pillariron02.jpg" width="515" height="210" /></a><strong>Dear Quote Investigator:</strong> In 2011 a host on the cable channel CNN said this: <a class="simple-footnote" title="2011 November 12 at 9:30 ET, Transcript for CNN cable channel broadcast, Program name: Your Bottom Line, Host of program: Christine Romans, (Excerpt spoken by Christine Romans), (Accessed CNN transcripts at transcripts.cnn.com on May 14, 2013) link" id="return-note-6260-1" href="#note-6260-1"><sup>1</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Is America still the land of opportunity, or is it Rome before the fall? You decide. Cicero is believed to have said something like this in 55 B.C. &#8220;The arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and assistance to foreign hands should be curtailed, lest Rome fall.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>I have seen a popular longer version of this quote on multiple websites:</p>
<blockquote><p>The budget should be balanced, the treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance.</p></blockquote>
<p>Yet, I have never seen a precise reference to the oration by Marcus Tullius Cicero containing the remark. Is this an authentic quotation?</p>
<p><strong>Quote Investigators:</strong> There is no substantive evidence that Cicero spoke or wrote these words. Pivotal citations revealing the most likely origin of the statement were located by top researcher Bonnie Taylor-Blake in 2008. In 1965 the best-selling author Taylor Caldwell published the book &#8220;A Pillar of Iron&#8221; with a subtitle on the cover stating &#8220;A novel about Cicero and the Rome he tried to save&#8221;. A fictionalized version of the historical figure Cicero was the primary character in the novel.</p>
<p>A passage in &#8220;A Pillar of Iron&#8221; depicted the thoughts of the character Cicero while he was conversing with a man named Antonius. Note that Caldwell&#8217;s Cicero did not actually speak the following words in the novel: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1965, A Pillar of Iron by Taylor Caldwell, Quote Page 483, Doubleday &amp; Company, Inc., Garden City, New York. (Verified on paper)" id="return-note-6260-2" href="#note-6260-2"><sup>2</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Cicero found himself frequently confounded by Antonius. Antonius heartily agreed with him that the budget should be balanced, that the Treasury should be refilled, that public debt should be reduced, that the arrogance of the generals should be tempered and controlled, that assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt, that the mobs should be forced to work and not depend on government for subsistence, and that prudence and frugality should be put into practice as soon as possible.</p>
<p>But when Cicero produced facts and figures how all these things must and should be accomplished by austerity and discipline and commonsense, Antonius became troubled.</p></blockquote>
<p>In the foreword to the book Caldwell described the extensive research she performed while preparing to write the story: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1965, A Pillar of Iron by Taylor Caldwell, Quote Page xiv, Doubleday &amp; Company, Inc., Garden City, New York. (Verified on paper)" id="return-note-6260-3" href="#note-6260-3"><sup>3</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>… I translated many hundreds of letters to-and-from Cicero and his editor and publisher, Atticus, myself in the Vatican Library in April 1947, and many more from Cicero to his brother, wife, son, daughter, Caesar, Pompey, and other people, in 1962 while again in Rome, and in Greece.</p></blockquote>
<p>Caldwell also stated that some of the excerpts from letters in the book were based directly on translations of historical documents:</p>
<blockquote><p>As few footnotes as possible have been used, but in every place where it is written, &#8220;Cicero wrote—Atticus wrote—etc.,&#8221; the letters are authentic and can be found in many histories in libraries almost everywhere.</p></blockquote>
<p>Nevertheless, the passage given above about the Roman budget reflected the inner views of the character Cicero as imagined by Caldwell. The words were not part of a letter or a speech.</p>
<p>Here are additional selected citations in chronological order.</p>
<p><span id="more-6260"></span>Cicero did deliver a &#8220;Speech in Defense of Sestius&#8221; that was thematically consonant with part of the quotation under investigation. The volume &#8220;As The Romans Did: A Sourcebook in Roman Social History&#8221; from Oxford University Press presented excerpts from the speech translated into English. Cicero commented negatively on a legislative proposal made by Gaius Gracchus to &#8220;sell a fixed monthly ration of grain at a low and unvarying price to any Roman citizen&#8221;: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1988, As The Romans Did: A Sourcebook in Roman Social History by Jo-Ann Shelton, (Cicero, Speech in Defense of Sestius, 45.96, 97; 48.103), Quote Page 229 and 230, Oxford University Press, Oxford and New York. (Verified on paper)" id="return-note-6260-4" href="#note-6260-4"><sup>4</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Gaius Gracchus proposed a grain law. The people were delighted with it because it provided an abundance of food without work. The good men, however, fought against it because they thought the masses would be attracted away from hard work and toward idleness, and they saw that the state treasury would be exhausted.</p></blockquote>
<p>In 1965 &#8220;A Pillar of Iron&#8221; by Taylor Caldwell was released and it contained the earliest known version of the quotation as noted previously in this article.</p>
<p>In May 1966 the Louisiana Congressman Otto E. Passman employed an instance of the quotation during a congressional subcommittee hearing. The passage in the novel was modified to give it the form of a direct quote. Also, the phrase &#8220;arrogance of the generals&#8221; was replaced with &#8220;arrogance of officialdom&#8221;. In addition, Passman presented a second quote about a &#8220;special right&#8221; which was printed in the novel a few pages after the first quote: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1966, U. S. House of Representatives, 89th Congress 2nd Session, Report Number 2045, Foreign Assistance and Related Agencies Appropriation Bill for 1967, Hearings Before a Subcommittee of the Committee on Appropriations, (Remarks made on May 4, 1966 by Otto E. Passman, Louisiana Congressman), Quote Page 673, (The first quote is repeated by Passman in page 820), U.S. Government Printing Office, Washington D.C. (ProQuest)" id="return-note-6260-5" href="#note-6260-5"><sup>5</sup></a> <a class="simple-footnote" title="1965, A Pillar of Iron by Taylor Caldwell, (Text similar to the first quote appears on page 483 and text similar to the second quote appears on page 489), Doubleday &amp; Company, Inc., Garden City, New York. (Verified on paper)" id="return-note-6260-6" href="#note-6260-6"><sup>6</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Mr. PASSMAN, The committee will come to order.<br />
You know occasionally in our busy and bored lives we run into interesting, well written books of history. The path that we are traveling is a complete duplication of great nations that preceded us in greatness and finally fell by their foolishness.</p>
<p>I would like to quote one or two items for the record. I am quoting them verbatim.</p>
<p>One—<br />
The budget should be balanced, the treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt, the mob should be forced to work and not depend on government for subsistence, and prudence and frugality should be put into practice.<br />
Cicero, 58 B.C.</p>
<p>There is another quotation that certainly makes you recognize that we are taking a page from history. It reads like this:</p>
<p>When a civil right invades a domain of the rights of all the people, then it becomes a special right of a special class.<br />
Cicero again, 58 B.C.</p></blockquote>
<p>In November 1966 a columnist in the Chicago Tribune reported on the remarks made by Passman and printed an instance of the statement ascribed to Cicero, thus facilitating its further dissemination. The quotation was further trimmed by a simplification of the last sentence: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1966 November 16, Chicago Tribune, Foreign Aid Called &#8216;Stupidest&#8217; Program by Chesly Manly, Start Page 1, Quote Page 2, Chicago, Illinois. (ProQuest)" id="return-note-6260-7" href="#note-6260-7"><sup>7</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>He is impressed by the parallels he finds between the destruction of the Roman republic and present trends in our own. This selection from Cicero expresses Passman&#8217;s views on the Great Society:</p>
<p>&#8220;The budget should be balanced, the treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed, less Rome become bankrupt, and the mobs should be forced to work and not depend on government for subsistence.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>In 1968 Congressman Passman continued to circulate the expression which he attributed to Cicero. For example, during a subcommittee hearing he repeated the words to Secretary of State Dean Rusk with this introduction: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1968, House of Representatives, 90th Congress 2nd Session, Foreign Assistance and Related Agencies Appropriation Bill for 1969, Hearings Before a Subcommittee of the Committee on Appropriations, (Remarks made on May 22, 1968 by Otto E. Passman, Louisiana Congressman), Quote Page 753, U.S. Government Printing Office, Washington D.C. (ProQuest)" id="return-note-6260-8" href="#note-6260-8"><sup>8</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Mr. PASSMAN. All right, Mr. Rusk, I have numerous quotations from history, but I think this statement made by Cicero over 2,000 years ago, is quite appropriate to close this hearing …</p></blockquote>
<p>In 1969 a letter from a Los Angeles resident to the editor of the Christian Science Monitor included an instance of the quote ascribed to Cicero. The letter writer acknowledged Otto Passman as the source of the statement. <a class="simple-footnote" title="1969 February 20, Christian Science Monitor, Our Readers Write, (Cicero&#8217;s warning: Letter from Cynthia W. Ashmun of Los Angeles), Quote Page 18, Boston, Massachusetts. (ProQuest)" id="return-note-6260-9" href="#note-6260-9"><sup>9</sup></a></p>
<p>In March 1971 a letter to the editor of the Chicago Tribune was printed that contained an instance of the passage credited to Cicero. <a class="simple-footnote" title="1971 March 29, Chicago Tribune, (Warning from the Past: Letter from Jerry Connolly), Quote Page 14, Chicago, Illinois. (ProQuest)" id="return-note-6260-10" href="#note-6260-10"><sup>10</sup></a> In April 1971 a critical responding letter was printed from John H. Collins, Professor of History at Northern Illinois University:  <a class="simple-footnote" title="1971 April 20, Chicago Tribune, (False Quotations: Letter from John H. Collins, Professor of History, Northern Illinois University), Quote Page 10, Chicago, Illinois. (ProQuest)" id="return-note-6260-11" href="#note-6260-11"><sup>11</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>I shall be glad to contribute $50 to Mr. Connolly&#8217;s favorite charity if he (or anyone else) can cite chapter and verse for this alleged quotation anywhere in the known writings of Cicero.</p>
<p>Mr. Connolly has been taken in by the &#8220;Foreword&#8221; of Taylor Caldwell&#8217;s &#8220;Pillar of Iron.&#8221; She speaks of nine years of study and &#8220;perpetual checking of sources&#8221; but the unhappy fact is that the great bulk of her quotations are false. The particular quotation above is from page 483 of &#8220;Pillar of Iron&#8221; and is totally without documentation. A historical novelist has a perfect right to put invented conversations and anecdotes into a novel, but should not represent these inventions as authentic history.</p></blockquote>
<p>In 1989 the Congressional Research Service published &#8220;Respectfully Quoted: A Dictionary of Quotations&#8221;. The saying ascribed to Cicero was examined with the following conclusion: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1989, Respectfully Quoted: A Dictionary of Quotations, Edited by Suzy Platt, Quote Number: 795, Entry name: Marcus Tullius Cicero (106–43 B.C.), (A Dictionary of Quotations Requested from the Congressional Research Service). (Accessed bartleby.com website May 15, 2013) link" id="return-note-6260-12" href="#note-6260-12"><sup>12</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>No evidence has been found to confirm that Cicero said these words, and it is almost certainly spurious.</p></blockquote>
<p>In 1992 the popular San Francisco Chronicle columnist Herb Caen printed a version of the saying which he obtained from a reader who saw it in Brazil. This version used the phrase &#8220;public assistance&#8221;: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1992 February 3, San Francisco Chronicle, The Monday Caenicle by Herb Caen, Page B1, San Francisco, California. (NewsBank Access World News)" id="return-note-6260-13" href="#note-6260-13"><sup>13</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>QUOTE: &#8220;The national budget must be balanced. The public debt must be reduced; the arrogance of the authorities must be moderated and controlled. Payments to foreign governments must be reduced, if the nation doesn&#8217;t want to go bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance.&#8221; No, not the words of a candidate for president. Marcus Tullius Cicero said that in Rome in 55 B.C., according to a poster on the wall of a public notary&#8217;s office in Sao Paolo, Brazil.</p></blockquote>
<p>In conclusion, <strong>QI</strong> believes that the passage under investigation was constructed by Taylor Caldwell for her 1965 novel &#8220;A Pillar of Iron&#8221;. The words reflected the thoughts of the fictional character Cicero who was based on Caldwell&#8217;s conception of the historical figure Cicero. In the novel the character did not speak these words, and they have not been found in the speeches or writings of Cicero.</p>
<p>Louisiana Congressman Otto E. Passman was an important locus for the dissemination of a version of the quote because he used it multiple times while he was a member of Congress. He directly ascribed the words to Cicero.</p>
<p>(Special thanks to Bonnie Taylor-Blake who located the 1971 letter from Collins and found the relevant text in &#8220;A Pillar of Iron&#8221;. She mentioned her finds at the valuable Snopes website in 2008. Thanks to Ariadne who pointed out the &#8220;Speech in Defense of Sestius&#8221; in the same Snopes discussion. Also, great thanks to Professor Jonathan Lighter who saw the CNN broadcast and discussed this topic on a mailing list. Much thanks to Michael V who sent a query about this quote.)</p>
<div class="simple-footnotes"><p class="notes">Notes:</p><ol><li id="note-6260-1"> 2011 November 12 at 9:30 ET, Transcript for CNN cable channel broadcast, Program name: Your Bottom Line, Host of program: Christine Romans, (Excerpt spoken by Christine Romans), (Accessed CNN transcripts at transcripts.cnn.com on May 14, 2013) <a href="http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1111/12/ybl.01.html">link</a>  <a href="#return-note-6260-1">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6260-2"> 1965, A Pillar of Iron by Taylor Caldwell, Quote Page 483, Doubleday &amp; Company, Inc., Garden City, New York. (Verified on paper)  <a href="#return-note-6260-2">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6260-3"> 1965, A Pillar of Iron by Taylor Caldwell, Quote Page xiv, Doubleday &amp; Company, Inc., Garden City, New York. (Verified on paper)  <a href="#return-note-6260-3">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6260-4"> 1988, As The Romans Did: A Sourcebook in Roman Social History by Jo-Ann Shelton, (Cicero, Speech in Defense of Sestius, 45.96, 97; 48.103), Quote Page 229 and 230, Oxford University Press, Oxford and New York. (Verified on paper) <a href="#return-note-6260-4">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6260-5"> 1966, U. S. House of Representatives, 89th Congress 2nd Session, Report Number 2045, Foreign Assistance and Related Agencies Appropriation Bill for 1967, Hearings Before a Subcommittee of the Committee on Appropriations, (Remarks made on May 4, 1966 by Otto E. Passman, Louisiana Congressman), Quote Page 673, (The first quote is repeated by Passman in page 820), U.S. Government Printing Office, Washington D.C. (ProQuest) <a href="#return-note-6260-5">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6260-6"> 1965, A Pillar of Iron by Taylor Caldwell, (Text similar to the first quote appears on page 483 and text similar to the second quote appears on page 489), Doubleday &amp; Company, Inc., Garden City, New York. (Verified on paper)  <a href="#return-note-6260-6">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6260-7"> 1966 November 16, Chicago Tribune, Foreign Aid Called &#8216;Stupidest&#8217; Program by Chesly Manly, Start Page 1, Quote Page 2, Chicago, Illinois. (ProQuest)  <a href="#return-note-6260-7">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6260-8"> 1968, House of Representatives, 90th Congress 2nd Session, Foreign Assistance and Related Agencies Appropriation Bill for 1969, Hearings Before a Subcommittee of the Committee on Appropriations, (Remarks made on May 22, 1968 by Otto E. Passman, Louisiana Congressman), Quote Page 753, U.S. Government Printing Office, Washington D.C. (ProQuest) <a href="#return-note-6260-8">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6260-9"> 1969 February 20, Christian Science Monitor, Our Readers Write, (Cicero&#8217;s warning: Letter from Cynthia W. Ashmun of Los Angeles), Quote Page 18, Boston, Massachusetts. (ProQuest) <a href="#return-note-6260-9">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6260-10"> 1971 March 29, Chicago Tribune, (Warning from the Past: Letter from Jerry Connolly), Quote Page 14, Chicago, Illinois. (ProQuest) <a href="#return-note-6260-10">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6260-11"> 1971 April 20, Chicago Tribune, (False Quotations: Letter from John H. Collins, Professor of History, Northern Illinois University), Quote Page 10, Chicago, Illinois. (ProQuest) <a href="#return-note-6260-11">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6260-12"> 1989, Respectfully Quoted: A Dictionary of Quotations, Edited by Suzy Platt, Quote Number: 795, Entry name: Marcus Tullius Cicero (106–43 B.C.), (A Dictionary of Quotations Requested from the Congressional Research Service). (Accessed bartleby.com website May 15, 2013) <a href="http://www.bartleby.com/73/795.html">link</a>  <a href="#return-note-6260-12">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6260-13"> 1992 February 3, San Francisco Chronicle, The Monday Caenicle by Herb Caen, Page B1, San Francisco, California. (NewsBank Access World News) <a href="#return-note-6260-13">&#8617;</a></li></ol></div>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>The Common Law Consists of About Half A Dozen Obvious Propositions, But Unfortunately &#8230;</title>
		<link>http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/05/11/common-law/</link>
		<comments>http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/05/11/common-law/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 May 2013 03:11:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[William Pickford]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Judge Dowdall]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Lord Sterndale]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[Judge Dowdall? William Pickford? Lord Sterndale? Anonymous? Apocryphal? Dear Quote Investigator: Some lawyers take pride in their use of rigorous logical and legal reasoning. I once heard a hilarious remark about the body of law accumulated over the centuries. I &#8230; <a href="http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/05/11/common-law/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
				<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Judge Dowdall? William Pickford? Lord Sterndale? Anonymous? Apocryphal?</strong></p>
<p><a href="http://quoteinvestigator.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/commonlaw01.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-6253" alt="commonlaw01" src="http://quoteinvestigator.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/commonlaw01.jpg" width="352" height="220" /></a><strong>Dear Quote Investigator:</strong> Some lawyers take pride in their use of rigorous logical and legal reasoning. I once heard a hilarious remark about the body of law accumulated over the centuries. I do not remember the exact wording, but it was something like this:</p>
<blockquote><p>The entire body of law and legal precedents may be derived from six obvious propositions; unfortunately, no one knows what they are.</p></blockquote>
<p>Have you heard this saying before? Could you explore it?</p>
<p><strong>Quote Investigator:</strong> In 1931 a judge named Dowdall presented a paper titled &#8220;The Psychological Origins of Law&#8221; at the Centenary Meeting of the British Association for the Advancement of Science. He included a saying about the common law that matched your description. But he enclosed the remark in quotation marks to indicate that the words were not his. Boldface has been added to the passages below: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1932, British Association for the Advancement of Science: Report of the Centenary Meeting, (Held in London on September 23 through 30, 1931), Sectional Transactions &#8211; H &#8211; Anthropology, (Paper presented Saturday, September 26, 1931), &#8220;The Psychological Origins of Law&#8221; by His Honour Judge Dowdall, Start Page 448, Quote Page 449, Published at the Office of the British Association, London. (Biodiversity Heritage Library at biodiversitylibrary.org) link" id="return-note-6250-1" href="#note-6250-1"><sup>1</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Man&#8217;s rational nature looks to find some presiding genius or logical principle behind, and giving consistency to, these decisions—a god of justice, a law of nature, etc. But such is not easily found even in these days, and the discovery is fragmentary. &#8216;<strong>The English common law consists of half a dozen obvious propositions, but unfortunately no one knows what they are.&#8217;</strong></p></blockquote>
<p>In 1932 Judge Dowdall wrote a letter to The Times of London and stated that he heard the saying from William Pickford who became Lord Sterndale, a British judge appointed to the High Court. In the following excerpt the phrase &#8220;taken silk&#8221; referred to a barrister becoming a Senior counsel: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1932 January 26, The Times (UK), Points from Letters: Lord Sterndale on Common Law, [Letter from Judge Dowdall], Page 8, Column 6, London, England. (The Times Digital Archive Cengage)" id="return-note-6250-2" href="#note-6250-2"><sup>2</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Lord Sterndale once said, <strong>&#8220;The common law consists of about half a dozen obvious propositions, but unfortunately nobody knows what they are.&#8221; </strong>He was reading a case I had looked up for him, and I did not know whether he was speaking to himself or enlightening a junior barrister in the mysteries of the law, and as his clerk immediately called him into Court the matter dropped. He was a leader at the time, and I think it was not long after he had taken silk. The observation is so witty and true that, unless it is already familiar, it deserves record; but as the number of those who knew, Lord Sterndale diminishes it would be interesting if any of your readers ever heard him make a similar observation.</p></blockquote>
<p>Here are two more citations and the conclusion.</p>
<p><span id="more-6250"></span>In 1936 a different version of the saying appeared in the Annual Report of the British Association for the Advancement of Science. The expression was considered malicious: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1936, British Association for the Advancement of Science: Report of the Annual Meeting 1936, (Held in Blackpool on September 9 through 16, 1936), Section J &#8211; Psychology, The Patterns of Experience by A. W Wolters, Start Page 181 Quote Page 187, Published at the Office of the Association, London. (Biodiversity Heritage Library at biodiversitylibrary.org) link" id="return-note-6250-3" href="#note-6250-3"><sup>3</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>This remarkable invention of our race has been maliciously described as consisting of <strong>a vast body of decisions and pronouncements, all readily deducible from a very few simple and universally accepted principles, though no one knows what they are.</strong> I cannot say whether this description is true, but there is no psychological difficulty in it. Common Law principles are the ways of living together developed by English people, and like all skills (for skills they are) they were developed in pursuit of ends which did not include the purpose of inspection.</p></blockquote>
<p>In 1881 Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. who later became a Supreme Court Justice published an influential treatise titled &#8220;The Common Law&#8221;. He argued that the body of law could not be derived deductively: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1909 (Copyright 1881), The Common Law by O. W, Holmes (Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.), Quote Page 1, Little, Brown, and Company, Boston, Massachusetts. (Google Books full view) link" id="return-note-6250-4" href="#note-6250-4"><sup>4</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>The life of the law has not been logic; it has been experience. The felt necessities of the time, the prevalent moral and political theories, intuitions of public policy, avowed or unconscious, even the prejudices which judges share with their fellow-men, have had a good deal more to do than the syllogism in determining the rules by which men should be governed. The law embodies the story of a nation&#8217;s development through many centuries and it cannot be dealt with as if it contained only the axioms and corollaries of a book of mathematics.</p></blockquote>
<p>In conclusion, the humorous remark about the law alluded to by the questioner was ascribed to Lord Sterndale by Judge Dowdall beginning in 1931 and 1932. There are multiple legal systems, and the remark was about the common law system.</p>
<div class="simple-footnotes"><p class="notes">Notes:</p><ol><li id="note-6250-1"> 1932, British Association for the Advancement of Science: Report of the Centenary Meeting, (Held in London on September 23 through 30, 1931), Sectional Transactions &#8211; H &#8211; Anthropology, (Paper presented Saturday, September 26, 1931), &#8220;The Psychological Origins of Law&#8221; by His Honour Judge Dowdall, Start Page 448, Quote Page 449, Published at the Office of the British Association, London. (Biodiversity Heritage Library at biodiversitylibrary.org) <a href="http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/96080#page/532/mode/1up">link</a>  <a href="#return-note-6250-1">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6250-2"> 1932 January 26, The Times (UK), Points from Letters: Lord Sterndale on Common Law, [Letter from Judge Dowdall], Page 8, Column 6, London, England. (The Times Digital Archive Cengage) <a href="#return-note-6250-2">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6250-3"> 1936, British Association for the Advancement of Science: Report of the Annual Meeting 1936, (Held in Blackpool on September 9 through 16, 1936), Section J &#8211; Psychology, The Patterns of Experience by A. W Wolters, Start Page 181 Quote Page 187, Published at the Office of the Association, London. (Biodiversity Heritage Library at biodiversitylibrary.org) <a href="http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/ia/reportofbritisha36adva#page/253/mode/1up">link</a>  <a href="#return-note-6250-3">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6250-4"> 1909 (Copyright 1881), The Common Law by O. W, Holmes (Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.), Quote Page 1, Little, Brown, and Company, Boston, Massachusetts. (Google Books full view) <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=xXouAAAAIAAJ&amp;q=%22life+of+the+law%22#v=snippet&amp;">link</a>  <a href="#return-note-6250-4">&#8617;</a></li></ol></div>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>I Would Rather Walk With a Friend in the Dark Than Alone in the Light</title>
		<link>http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/05/10/walk-with-friend/</link>
		<comments>http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/05/10/walk-with-friend/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 May 2013 07:48:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Anne Sullivan]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Helen Keller]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://quoteinvestigator.com/?p=6236</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Helen Keller? Anne Sullivan? Apocryphal? Dear Quote Investigator: Helen Keller was once asked about the price she would pay to gain the sense of sight. Her reported response was thoughtful and poignant: I would rather walk with a friend in &#8230; <a href="http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/05/10/walk-with-friend/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
				<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Helen Keller? Anne Sullivan? Apocryphal?</strong></p>
<p><a href="http://quoteinvestigator.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/keller02.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-6239" alt="keller02" src="http://quoteinvestigator.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/keller02.jpg" width="420" height="210" /></a><strong>Dear Quote Investigator:</strong> Helen Keller was once asked about the price she would pay to gain the sense of sight. Her reported response was thoughtful and poignant:</p>
<blockquote><p>I would rather walk with a friend in the dark than walk alone in the light.</p></blockquote>
<p>What were the circumstances surrounding this quotation? I have been unable to find a solid citation.</p>
<p><strong>Quote Investigator:</strong> In the early 1920s Helen Keller and her inseparable teacher Anne Sullivan faced a difficult financial situation, and they decided to earn money via appearances on the vaudeville circuit. The pair had already given performances on the Chautauqua circuit, and hence the experience of exhibiting themselves for remuneration was not alien.</p>
<p>The comprehensive dual biography &#8220;Helen and Teacher: The Story of Helen Keller and Anne Sullivan Macy&#8221; by Joseph P. Lash released in 1980 included a chapter about this interval spent in show business. The act of Keller and Sullivan &#8220;lasted only twenty minutes&#8221;. A question and answer period allowed Keller to deliver many witty and sharp observations about her life and society. But, she and Sullivan did make advance preparations: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1980, Helen and Teacher: The Story of Helen Keller and Anne Sullivan Macy by Joseph P. Lash, Chapter: On the Vaudeville Circuit , Start Page 487, Quote Page 496 to 498, A Merloyd Lawrence Book: Delacorte Press/Seymour Lawrence, New York. (Verified on paper)" id="return-note-6236-1" href="#note-6236-1"><sup>1</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Many of her quick sallies were not as spontaneous as they appeared. With businesslike foresight they began to list the questions usually asked, together with answers Helen might give. In the end the list ran to seventeen pages.</p></blockquote>
<p>A list with dozens of Q&amp;A pairs was given in the biography by Lash. The author did not state the provenance of the list, but he did have access to several key repositories, e.g., the Helen Keller archives at the American Foundation for the Blind and the archive at the Alexander Graham Bell Association for the Deaf in Washington, D.C. Here is a small sample of five Q&amp;A pairs. The first concerns President Warren G. Harding:</p>
<blockquote><p>Q. What do you think of Mr. Harding?<br />
A. I have a fellow-feeling for him; he seems as blind as I am.</p>
<p>Q. What is the greatest obstacle to universal peace?<br />
A. The human race.</p>
<p>Q. What is the slowest thing in the world?<br />
A. Congress.</p>
<p>Q. Do you think women are men&#8217;s intellectual equals?<br />
A. I think God made woman foolish so that she might be a suitable companion to man.</p>
<p>Q. Do you desire your sight more than anything else in the world?<br />
A. No! No! I would rather walk with a friend in the dark than walk alone in the light.</p></blockquote>
<p>The last answer above corresponds to the statement under exploration. So there is good evidence that Keller did communicate this saying. However, variants of this quote were being used in the religious domain many years earlier as discussed below.</p>
<p>Here are additional selected citations in chronological order.</p>
<p><span id="more-6236"></span>In 1876 a magazine called &#8220;The Christian Pioneer&#8221; published a poem titled &#8220;He Knows&#8221; with the following lines. Here the accompanying figure is God instead of a friend as specified in Keller&#8217;s statement: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1876, The Christian Pioneer; A Monthly Magazine, Volume 30, Section: Poetry, &#8220;He Knows&#8221;, Quote Page 30, Simpkin, Marshall, &amp; Co., London. (Google Books full view) link" id="return-note-6236-2" href="#note-6236-2"><sup>2</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>I would rather walk in the dark with God, than walk alone in the light;<br />
I would rather walk with Him by faith, than walk alone by sight.</p></blockquote>
<p>In 1881 a book of religious writings called &#8220;Pilgrim-Lays for the Homeward Bound&#8221; included a poem called &#8220;He Knows&#8221;. The last of the four lines below was a variant with &#8220;light&#8221; instead of &#8220;sight&#8221;: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1881, Pilgrim-Lays for the Homeward Bound and Words of Counsel and Comfort in Sunshine and Shade, Arranged by J. Williamson, Section; Trust, &#8216;He Knows&#8221; by Bainerd, Start Page 136, Quote Page 137, Hatchards, Piccadilly, London, Printed by Strangeways and Sons, London. (Google Books full view) link" id="return-note-6236-3" href="#note-6236-3"><sup>3</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>I would rather walk in the dark with God<br />
Than walk alone in the light;<br />
I would rather walk with Him by faith<br />
Than walk alone in the light.</p></blockquote>
<p>The verses continued to circulate for many years. For example, in 1887 a character in a short story employed the lines which were placed between quotation marks within the text: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1887 June, Manford&#8217;s New Monthly Magazine, Volume 31, Number 6, Home-Health: Death of the Old Wife, Quote Page 348, T.H. &amp; M.W. Tabor, Chicago. (Google Books full view) link" id="return-note-6236-4" href="#note-6236-4"><sup>4</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>What does it matter if the way is dark? &#8216;I&#8217;d rather walk with God in the dark than walk alone in the light. I&#8217;d rather walk with Him by faith than walk alone by sight.&#8217;</p></blockquote>
<p>The religious saying was being disseminated in the period shortly before the vaudeville performances of Keller, and she may have been exposed to it. Here is an example in published in 1919: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1919 June 26, The Continent, Volume 50, Number 26, Editorial: Songs in the Night, Quote Page 780, The McCormick Publishing Company, New York. (Google Books full view) link" id="return-note-6236-5" href="#note-6236-5"><sup>5</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>It is not affectation to say that one &#8220;would rather walk with God in the dark than walk alone in the light.&#8221; There are beauties of life which are brought out in darkness and unsuspected in the light.</p></blockquote>
<p>Sometime in the early 1920s Keller communicated the following according to a 1980 biography as noted previously in this article:</p>
<blockquote><p>I would rather walk with a friend in the dark than walk alone in the light.</p></blockquote>
<p>Skipping forward several decades, in 1998 a television critic at the Washington Post reviewed a TV movie about Helen Keller that was broadcast on the CBS network. An instance of the quote was used in the movie: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1998 November 14, Washington Post, Helen Keller Tale a &#8216;Miracle&#8217; In Spite of Itself, Page G01, Washington, D.C. (ProQuest)" id="return-note-6236-6" href="#note-6236-6"><sup>6</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>The first hour is pretty much petrified mush, but in the second, things liven up. When Keller and Sullivan are low on money, they agree to appear on a vaudeville stage, talk about how Keller overcame blindness and deafness and the inability to speak, and answer questions from the audience.</p>
<p>One person asks if sight isn&#8217;t the sense Keller misses most: &#8220;Do you desire sight most of all?&#8221; Keller says no and adds, &#8220;I would rather walk with a friend in the dark than walk alone in the light.&#8221; Gulp. This is where yours truly lost it.</p></blockquote>
<p>In conclusion, there is good evidence that during a stage performance Helen Keller did respond to a question from the audience with the quotation under investigation. Her answer may have been prepared in advance, and it may have been influenced by an existing adage in the religious domain.</p>
<p>(Special thanks to Sherry Harris @rebelsher who asked about this quotation in a tweet.)</p>
<div class="simple-footnotes"><p class="notes">Notes:</p><ol><li id="note-6236-1"> 1980, Helen and Teacher: The Story of Helen Keller and Anne Sullivan Macy by Joseph P. Lash, Chapter: On the Vaudeville Circuit , Start Page 487, Quote Page 496 to 498, A Merloyd Lawrence Book: Delacorte Press/Seymour Lawrence, New York. (Verified on paper) <a href="#return-note-6236-1">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6236-2"> 1876, The Christian Pioneer; A Monthly Magazine, Volume 30, Section: Poetry, &#8220;He Knows&#8221;, Quote Page 30, Simpkin, Marshall, &amp; Co., London. (Google Books full view) <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=ST8EAAAAQAAJ&amp;q=by+sight#v=snippet&amp;">link</a>  <a href="#return-note-6236-2">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6236-3"> 1881, Pilgrim-Lays for the Homeward Bound and Words of Counsel and Comfort in Sunshine and Shade, Arranged by J. Williamson, Section; Trust, &#8216;He Knows&#8221; by Bainerd, Start Page 136, Quote Page 137, Hatchards, Piccadilly, London, Printed by Strangeways and Sons, London. (Google Books full view) <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=tgoDAAAAQAAJ&amp;q=%22alone+in%22#v=snippet&amp;">link</a>  <a href="#return-note-6236-3">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6236-4"> 1887 June, Manford&#8217;s New Monthly Magazine, Volume 31, Number 6, Home-Health: Death of the Old Wife, Quote Page 348, T.H. &amp; M.W. Tabor, Chicago. (Google Books full view) <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=yspNAAAAMAAJ&amp;q=%22walk+alone%22#v=snippet&amp;">link</a>  <a href="#return-note-6236-4">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6236-5"> 1919 June 26, The Continent, Volume 50, Number 26, Editorial: Songs in the Night, Quote Page 780, The McCormick Publishing Company, New York. (Google Books full view) <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=AIFPAAAAYAAJ&amp;q=%22rather+walk+with%22#v=snippet&amp;">link</a>  <a href="#return-note-6236-5">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6236-6"> 1998 November 14, Washington Post, Helen Keller Tale a &#8216;Miracle&#8217; In Spite of Itself, Page G01, Washington, D.C. (ProQuest)  <a href="#return-note-6236-6">&#8617;</a></li></ol></div>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>There Are Three Rules for the Writing of a Novel</title>
		<link>http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/05/06/three-rules/</link>
		<comments>http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/05/06/three-rules/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 May 2013 03:52:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Mark Twain]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Oscar Wilde]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Somerset Maugham]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bret Harte]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[Somerset Maugham? Oscar Wilde? Mark Twain? Bret Harte? Anonymous? Dear Quote Investigator: With the rapid growth of ebooks it seems that everyone is writing a book. Here is the funniest advice I have heard on this topic: There are three &#8230; <a href="http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/05/06/three-rules/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
				<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Somerset Maugham? Oscar Wilde? Mark Twain? Bret Harte? Anonymous?</strong></p>
<p><a href="http://quoteinvestigator.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/maughamrules03.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-6228" alt="maughamrules03" src="http://quoteinvestigator.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/maughamrules03.jpg" width="459" height="210" /></a><strong>Dear Quote Investigator:</strong> With the rapid growth of ebooks it seems that <a href="http://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/10/22/world-end/">everyone is writing a book</a>. Here is the funniest advice I have heard on this topic:</p>
<blockquote><p>There are three rules for writing a novel. Unfortunately, no one knows what they are.</p></blockquote>
<p>Several prominent authors have offered writing advice in the form of three rules. Could you explore the background of these sayings?</p>
<p><strong>Quote Investigator:</strong> The earliest evidence located by <strong>QI</strong> of this comical piece of non-advice was published in a 1977 volume providing guidance to neophyte authors titled &#8220;Maybe You Should Write a Book&#8221; by Ralph Daigh. This volume was not designed to teach the reader how to write, and Daigh illustrated that point with the following anecdote: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1977, Maybe You Should Write a Book by Ralph Daigh, Quote Page 7, Prentice-Hall, Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey. (Verified on paper)" id="return-note-6207-1" href="#note-6207-1"><sup>1</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Somerset Maugham is credited with summing it all up when in addressing a friend&#8217;s class on English literature he was asked by a student how to write a novel.</p>
<p>Maugham&#8217;s answer was:<br />
&#8220;There are three rules for the writing of a novel.<br />
&#8220;Unfortunately no one knows what they are.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Popular author, Maugham, died in 1965, so the documentation for this attribution is not ideal. Perhaps future discoveries will provide further substantiation.</p>
<p>Further below, this article will discuss writing advice that has been attributed to the prominent authors Bret Harte, Mark Twain, and Oscar Wilde. In each case the guidance utilized a three-fold structure. The article will also present several variants of the quotation credited to Maugham in domains such as: politics, moviemaking, and aviation. Immediately below, an antecedent of the jest in the realm of card games is discussed.</p>
<p>Here are additional selected citations in chronological order.</p>
<p><span id="more-6207"></span>A precursor to the quote based on another set of missing rules appeared in a discussion of a game called Bumblepuppy in &#8220;Notes and Queries&#8221; in 1866: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1866 October 6, Notes and Queries: A Medium of Inter-Communication for Literary Men, General Readers, Etc., BUMBLEPUPPY by John Davidson (Postscript), Quote Page 275, Published at the Office of Notes and Queries, London. (Google Books full view) link" id="return-note-6207-2" href="#note-6207-2"><sup>2</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>If you want the rules of Bumblepuppy you must invent them yourself, for I believe no one knows what they are. I have often made inquiries about the game at the &#8216;The Dublin Man-of-War,&#8217; and invariably I have discovered that nothing is known about it, except that its name is Bumblepuppy, and that it influences to a certain, or rather uncertain extent, the absorption of beer.</p>
<p>The name of the inventor is lost (if he ever had one); but the people of Ewell rather hold to the opinion that it never had an inventor, and I am under the impression that they believe it to have come down from the clouds, and taken up its abode at &#8216;The Dublin Man-of-War&#8217; as a mystery on a large scale,—a thing touching which history says nothing, and which can only be defined as an unfathomable thingummy.</p></blockquote>
<p>An 1880 work offered the following characterization of bumblepuppy evincing exasperation, and the word was included in &#8220;The Century Dictionary and Cyclopedia&#8221; in 1906: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1880, Whist; or Bumblepuppy? Ten Lectures Addressed to Children by Pembridge, Lecture I: Introductory, Quote Page 1, William Whiteley, Printer, London. (Google Books full view) link" id="return-note-6207-3" href="#note-6207-3"><sup>3</sup></a>  <a class="simple-footnote" title="1906, The Century Dictionary and Cyclopedia, (In Ten Volumes: Volume 1), Entry: bumblepuppy, Quote Page 719, Published by the Century Co., New York. (Google Books full view) link" id="return-note-6207-4" href="#note-6207-4"><sup>4</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>DEFINITION OF BUMBLEPUPPY.</p>
<p>Bumblepuppy is persisting to play Whist, either in utter ignorance of all its known principles, or in defiance of them, or both.</p></blockquote>
<p>Bret Harte was a prominent American author and the editor of the periodical &#8220;Overland Monthly&#8221;. In 1915 one of the magazine contributors published by Harte told an anecdote about him that presented Harte&#8217;s tripartite instructions for writing: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1915 June, The American Magazine, Volume 79, Number 6, Interesting People: A Seventy-six-year-old Woman Reporter by Bertha Snow Adams, (Profile of Josephine Clifford McCrackin), Start Page 51, Quote Page 51 and 52, The Phillips Publishing Co., New York. (Google Books full view) link" id="return-note-6207-5" href="#note-6207-5"><sup>5</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;Soon after I determined to make writing my profession, my mother came to me and said very solemnly:<br />
&#8220;&#8216;Josephine, you must ask Mr. Harte what books you should read to acquire a perfect style.&#8217;<br />
&#8220;Accordingly I ventured into the editorial sanctum and said as solemnly as my mother had done:</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8216;Mr. Harte, what books shall I read to acquire a perfect style?&#8217;&#8221;<br />
&#8220;&#8216;Oh, lord!&#8217; he groaned, swinging around in his chair, &#8216;for pity&#8217;s sake, don&#8217;t read anything! Just write! Write! Write!&#8217;</p></blockquote>
<p>In 1916 an article in &#8220;The Editor: The Journal of Information for Literary Workers&#8221; credited Mark Twain with writing advice that was comparable to Harte&#8217;s given above. Twain died in 1910, and <strong>QI</strong> has been unable to find any additional substantive support for the Twain attribution: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1916 October 7, The Editor: The Journal of Information for Literary Workers, The Steps in Composition by Paxton Simmons, Start Page 319, Quote Page 319, Published by The Editor Company, Ridgewood, New Jersey. (Google Books full view) link" id="return-note-6207-6" href="#note-6207-6"><sup>6</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Mark Twain&#8217;s dictum that there are but three rules for writing, namely, first, write, second, write, third, write, is an excellent rule based upon the soundest judgment. It is not, however, complete, for it tells nothing of how to write.</p></blockquote>
<p>In 1917 the admonishment ascribed to Twain was printed in &#8220;The Inland Printer&#8221;: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1917 December, The Inland Printer, Volume 60, Number 3, Efficiency The Watchword by Ernest Mowrey, Start Page 335, Quote Page 336, Column 1, Published by The Inland Printer Company, Chicago, Illinois. (Google Books full view) link" id="return-note-6207-7" href="#note-6207-7"><sup>7</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Mark Twain had three rules for writing. The first was &#8220;Write,&#8221; the second was &#8220;Write&#8221; and the third was &#8220;Write.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>In 1930 the daughter of the prominent English playwright Henry Arthur Jones published a biography of her father. The dramatist Jones was the target of a barb from the famous wit Oscar Wilde, but Jones enjoyed sharing the joke with others. The format of the quip was tripartite advice from Wilde: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1930, Taking the Curtain Call: The Life and Letters of Henry Arthur Jones by Doris Arthur Jones, Quote Page 156, The Macmillan Company, New York. (Reprint by Kessinger Publishing, 2006) (Google Books full view)" id="return-note-6207-8" href="#note-6207-8"><sup>8</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>He was very fond of quoting Oscar Wilde&#8217;s three rules for writing plays. &#8220;The first rule is not to write like Henry Arthur Jones, the second and third rules are the same!&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>The comment ascribed to Oscar Wilde was included in an important 1946 biography by Hesketh Pearson. In the following passage &#8220;he&#8221; referred to Wilde: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1946, Oscar Wilde: His Life and Wit by Hesketh Pearson, Quote Page 196, Harper &amp; Brothers, New York. (Verified on paper)" id="return-note-6207-9" href="#note-6207-9"><sup>9</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>He had a poor opinion of contemporary dramatists. &#8220;It is the best play I ever slept through,&#8221; he said of a piece by Arthur Pinero, and of another playwright: &#8220;There are three rules for writing plays. The first rule is not to write like Henry Arthur Jones; the second and third rules are the same.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>In 1977 the jocular three-part writing advice was ascribed to Somerset Maugham as noted previously in this article:</p>
<blockquote><p>There are three rules for the writing of a novel. Unfortunately no one knows what they are.</p></blockquote>
<p>In 1980 &#8220;The Quotable Quotations Book&#8221; included the saying attributed to Maugham and cited the 1977 book by Ralph Daigh that is also listed in this article. <a class="simple-footnote" title="1980, The Quotable Quotations Book, Compiled by Alec Lewis, Section: Literature: The Novel, Quote Page 153, Thomas Y. Crowell, New York. (Verified on paper)" id="return-note-6207-10" href="#note-6207-10"><sup>10</sup></a></p>
<p>In April 1980 a book reviewer in the Los Angeles Times evaluated &#8220;The Quotable Quotations Book&#8221; and reprinted the quip credited to Maugham. However, the quotation was streamlined: &#8220;the writing of a novel&#8221; was changed to &#8220;writing a novel&#8221;: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1980 April 20, Los Angeles Times, Book Notes: &#8216;Little Gloria&#8217; and How She Grew by Dick Lochte, (Short Review of &#8220;The Quotable Quotations Book&#8221; compiled by Alec Lewis), Quote Page N2, Los Angeles. (ProQuest)" id="return-note-6207-11" href="#note-6207-11"><sup>11</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>W. Somerset Maugham uttered, &#8220;There are three rules for writing a novel. Unfortunately, no one knows what they are.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>In May 1980 the joke was refashioned and applied to the domain of show business: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1980 May 29, Christian Science Monitor, Section: ARTS: Television Preview, Harlem as it never was by Arthur Unger, Quote Page 19, Boston, Massachusetts. (NewsBank Access World News)" id="return-note-6207-12" href="#note-6207-12"><sup>12</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;There are three rules for success in show business,&#8221; said Frank Schiffman, the late owner of New York&#8217;s Apollo Theater in Harlem. &#8220;Unfortunately,&#8221; he confided, &#8220;nobody knows what they are. . . .&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>In August 1980 the saying ascribed to Maugham was printed in the Los Angeles Times with a new phrasing: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1980 August 17, Los Angeles Times, Soft cover by George Warren, Quote Page O6, Column 4, Los Angeles. (ProQuest)" id="return-note-6207-13" href="#note-6207-13"><sup>13</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;There are three rules for the writing of novels,&#8221; Somerset Maugham once told a writing class. &#8220;Unfortunately, nobody has the slightest idea what they are.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>In 1982 the quotation was altered and transferred to the educational domain. In the following passage &#8220;Dr. Hutchins&#8221; probably referred to Robert Maynard Hutchins who was a prominent educator and President of the University of Chicago: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1982 December 05, Seattle Daily Times, &#8220;Who cares? Education needed to overcome euphoria&#8221; by Stanley Kramer, Quote Page A-24, Seattle, Washington. (GenealogyBank)" id="return-note-6207-14" href="#note-6207-14"><sup>14</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>I think it was Dr. Hutchins who said there are three rules for teaching: unfortunately nobody knows what they are.</p></blockquote>
<p>In 1985 House of Representatives member Patricia Schroeder employed a political variant of the saying: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1985 January 27, Milwaukee Journal, Section: Accent On The News, National Scene: Democrats Look For Way Out Of Wilderness by John W. Kole, Quote Page 2, Column 4, Milwaukee. Wisconsin. (Google News Archive)" id="return-note-6207-15" href="#note-6207-15"><sup>15</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;There are three things the Democratic Party must do if it wants to win the White House,&#8221; she said. &#8220;Unfortunately, no one knows what they are.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>In 1989 a version of the saying was credited to a high school instructor in &#8220;Cincinnati Magazine&#8221;: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1989 August, Cincinnati Magazine, Volume 22, Number 11, Between Us: Prize Catches by Felix Winternitz, Quote Page 10, Published by Emmis Communications. (Google Books full view)" id="return-note-6207-16" href="#note-6207-16"><sup>16</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;There are three rules for writing an award-winning article,&#8221; my high school journalism teacher once confided in a somber, professional tone. &#8220;Unfortunately, no one has the slightest idea what they are.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>In 1993 a modified instance of the quotation was applied to the domain of aviation in &#8220;Flying&#8221; magazine: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1993 August, Flying (Flying Magazine), Volume 120, Number 8, Vectors: More Rules for Pilots by Len Morgan, Quote Page 108, Column 2, Published by Hachette Filipacchi Magazines, New York. (Google Books full view)" id="return-note-6207-17" href="#note-6207-17"><sup>17</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>There are three rules for making a smooth landing: Unfortunately, no one knows what they are.</p></blockquote>
<p>In 2008 Clay Shirky, an influential writer about the internet and its societal implications, used a version of the saying tailored to the motion picture domain: <a class="simple-footnote" title="2008, Here Comes Everybody: The Power of Organizing Without Organizations by Clay Shirky, (Chapter: 11: Promise, Tool, Bargain), Quote Page 260, Penguin Press, New York. (Google Books Preview)" id="return-note-6207-18" href="#note-6207-18"><sup>18</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>There&#8217;s an old joke in Hollywood: &#8220;The good news is that there are three simple rules for making a good movie. The bad news is that no one knows what they are.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>In conclusion, the quotation presented by the questioner is credited to Somerset Maugham by 1977. This is rather late since Maugham died in 1965. But currently he is the leading candidate for creator of the saying. The advice for scribblers that repeats the word &#8220;write&#8221; three times probably should be ascribed to Bret Harte and not to Mark Twain.</p>
<p>The humorous remark attributed to Oscar Wilde was published in 1930, and Wilde died in 1900. The accuracy here depends on the separate biographers Doris Arthur Jones and Hesketh Pearson. The words were critical of Henry Arthur Jones, but he apparently repeated them. QI thinks the provenance of the quotation is not certain, but the assignment to Wilde is credible.</p>
<p>Jokes built on the template of three unknown rules are popular and variants have proliferated over time.</p>
<div class="simple-footnotes"><p class="notes">Notes:</p><ol><li id="note-6207-1"> 1977, Maybe You Should Write a Book by Ralph Daigh, Quote Page 7, Prentice-Hall, Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey. (Verified on paper) <a href="#return-note-6207-1">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6207-2"> 1866 October 6, Notes and Queries: A Medium of Inter-Communication for Literary Men, General Readers, Etc., BUMBLEPUPPY by John Davidson (Postscript), Quote Page 275, Published at the Office of Notes and Queries, London. (Google Books full view) <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=3mkJAAAAQAAJ&amp;q=thingummy#v=snippet&amp;">link</a>  <a href="#return-note-6207-2">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6207-3"> 1880, Whist; or Bumblepuppy? Ten Lectures Addressed to Children by Pembridge, Lecture I: Introductory, Quote Page 1, William Whiteley, Printer, London. (Google Books full view) <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=8_UIAAAAQAAJ&amp;q=%22its+known%22#v=snippet&amp;">link</a>  <a href="#return-note-6207-3">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6207-4"> 1906, The Century Dictionary and Cyclopedia, (In Ten Volumes: Volume 1), Entry: bumblepuppy, Quote Page 719, Published by the Century Co., New York. (Google Books full view) <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=U_FOAAAAYAAJ&amp;q=bumblepuppy#v=snippet&amp;">link</a>  <a href="#return-note-6207-4">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6207-5"> 1915 June, The American Magazine, Volume 79, Number 6, Interesting People: A Seventy-six-year-old Woman Reporter by Bertha Snow Adams, (Profile of Josephine Clifford McCrackin), Start Page 51, Quote Page 51 and 52, The Phillips Publishing Co., New York. (Google Books full view) <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=bhkAAAAAYAAJ&amp;q=%22perfect+style%22#v=snippet&amp;">link</a>  <a href="#return-note-6207-5">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6207-6"> 1916 October 7, The Editor: The Journal of Information for Literary Workers, The Steps in Composition by Paxton Simmons, Start Page 319, Quote Page 319, Published by The Editor Company, Ridgewood, New Jersey. (Google Books full view) <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=PVI4AQAAIAAJ&amp;q=%22three+rules%22#v=snippet&amp;">link</a>  <a href="#return-note-6207-6">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6207-7"> 1917 December, The Inland Printer, Volume 60, Number 3, Efficiency The Watchword by Ernest Mowrey, Start Page 335, Quote Page 336, Column 1, Published by The Inland Printer Company, Chicago, Illinois. (Google Books full view) <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=8wghAQAAMAAJ&amp;q=%22Twain+had%22#v=snippet&amp;">link</a>  <a href="#return-note-6207-7">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6207-8"> 1930, Taking the Curtain Call: The Life and Letters of Henry Arthur Jones by Doris Arthur Jones, Quote Page 156, The Macmillan Company, New York. (Reprint by Kessinger Publishing, 2006) (Google Books full view)  <a href="#return-note-6207-8">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6207-9"> 1946, Oscar Wilde: His Life and Wit by Hesketh Pearson, Quote Page 196, Harper &amp; Brothers, New York. (Verified on paper) <a href="#return-note-6207-9">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6207-10"> 1980, The Quotable Quotations Book, Compiled by Alec Lewis, Section: Literature: The Novel, Quote Page 153, Thomas Y. Crowell, New York. (Verified on paper) <a href="#return-note-6207-10">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6207-11"> 1980 April 20, Los Angeles Times, Book Notes: &#8216;Little Gloria&#8217; and How She Grew by Dick Lochte, (Short Review of &#8220;The Quotable Quotations Book&#8221; compiled by Alec Lewis), Quote Page N2, Los Angeles. (ProQuest) <a href="#return-note-6207-11">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6207-12"> 1980 May 29, Christian Science Monitor, Section: ARTS: Television Preview, Harlem as it never was by Arthur Unger, Quote Page 19, Boston, Massachusetts. (NewsBank Access World News) <a href="#return-note-6207-12">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6207-13"> 1980 August 17, Los Angeles Times, Soft cover by George Warren, Quote Page O6, Column 4, Los Angeles. (ProQuest) <a href="#return-note-6207-13">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6207-14"> 1982 December 05, Seattle Daily Times, &#8220;Who cares? Education needed to overcome euphoria&#8221; by Stanley Kramer, Quote Page A-24, Seattle, Washington. (GenealogyBank) <a href="#return-note-6207-14">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6207-15"> 1985 January 27, Milwaukee Journal, Section: Accent On The News, National Scene: Democrats Look For Way Out Of Wilderness by John W. Kole, Quote Page 2, Column 4, Milwaukee. Wisconsin. (Google News Archive) <a href="#return-note-6207-15">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6207-16"> 1989 August, Cincinnati Magazine, Volume 22, Number 11, Between Us: Prize Catches by Felix Winternitz, Quote Page 10, Published by Emmis Communications. (Google Books full view) <a href="#return-note-6207-16">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6207-17"> 1993 August, Flying (Flying Magazine), Volume 120, Number 8, Vectors: More Rules for Pilots by Len Morgan, Quote Page 108, Column 2, Published by Hachette Filipacchi Magazines, New York. (Google Books full view) <a href="#return-note-6207-17">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6207-18"> 2008, Here Comes Everybody: The Power of Organizing Without Organizations by Clay Shirky, (Chapter: 11: Promise, Tool, Bargain), Quote Page 260, Penguin Press, New York. (Google Books Preview) <a href="#return-note-6207-18">&#8617;</a></li></ol></div>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Abstract Art:  A Product of the Untalented, Sold by the Unprincipled to the Utterly Bewildered</title>
		<link>http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/05/04/abstract-art/</link>
		<comments>http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/05/04/abstract-art/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 May 2013 22:27:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Al Capp]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Frank Zappa]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Robert Deis]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[Al Capp? Apocryphal? Dear Quote Investigator: The cartoonist Al Capp was famous for creating the long-running comic strip Li&#8217;l Abner. During the 1960s he reportedly described abstract art with the following amusing and acerbic phrase: A product of the untalented &#8230; <a href="http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/05/04/abstract-art/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
				<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Al Capp? Apocryphal?</strong></p>
<p><a href="http://quoteinvestigator.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/alcappabstract02.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-6198" alt="alcappabstract02" src="http://quoteinvestigator.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/alcappabstract02.jpg" width="450" height="193" /></a><strong>Dear Quote Investigator:</strong> The cartoonist Al Capp was famous for creating the long-running comic strip Li&#8217;l Abner. During the 1960s he reportedly described abstract art with the following amusing and acerbic phrase:</p>
<blockquote><p>A product of the untalented sold by the unprincipled to the utterly bewildered.</p></blockquote>
<p>Today this description could be applied to several products. Is this quotation accurate?</p>
<p><strong>Quote Investigator:</strong> Al Capp did make more than one comment of this type. The earliest evidence located by <strong>QI</strong> was printed in a 1961 newspaper column by Capp who presented a comedic conception of a &#8220;Library of Creative Art&#8221; in the year 2000, i.e., thirty-nine years in the future.</p>
<p>Capp indicated that contemporary TV commercials would be preserved in the future museum because they embodied &#8220;man&#8217;s supreme achievement in the realm of wild, impossible fantasy.&#8221; However, abstract art works were labeled &#8220;incomprehensible messes&#8221;, and they would not be present in the museum. The fictional curator stated the following. Boldface has been added to passages below: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1961 May 4, Boston Globe, Slim Pickin&#8217;s in an Art Library: A Sad Commentary On Sick Century by Al Capp, Quote Page 7, Boston, Massachusetts. (ProQuest)" id="return-note-6196-1" href="#note-6196-1"><sup>1</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>By excluding their messes from the library the place will look cleaner, and maybe our time will be forgotten as one when <strong>the creations of the untalented, the unhealthy, and the unhousebroken were praised by the unearthly and sold by the unprincipled to the totally bewildered.</strong></p>
<p>We&#8217;ll all look better in the year 2000 if we retain only the work of artists now called hacks, but who stubbornly kept alive the traditions of Michaelangelo, da Vinci, and Rembrandt.</p></blockquote>
<p>Although, the museum and its curator were exaggerated satirical devices they did reflect some of the opinions held by Capp.</p>
<p>Here are additional selected citations in chronological order.</p>
<p><span id="more-6196"></span>In June 1963 an Associated Press story that appeared in multiple newspapers printed the words spoken by Capp during a television colloquy. This version of the statement was more concise: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1963 June 25, Washington Post, Al Capp Frames Abstract Art, (Associated Press), Quote Page A1, Washington, D.C. (ProQuest)" id="return-note-6196-2" href="#note-6196-2"><sup>2</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Cartoonist Al Capp was asked on a recorded television program yesterday to discuss abstract art.</p>
<p>His evaluation: <strong>&#8220;A product of the untalented, sold by the unprincipled to the utterly bewildered.&#8221;</strong></p>
<p>The creator of &#8216;Lil Abner&#8221; gave his view while being interviewed by teenagers on a program called &#8220;Youth Wants to Know.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>In 1966 Capp used a version of the expression again while presenting a talk at the Smithsonian in Washington: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1966 June 12, Washington Post, Abstract Art Is Merely a Product Of Diseased Minds, Al Capp Asserts, Quote Page D1, Washington, D.C. (ProQuest)" id="return-note-6196-3" href="#note-6196-3"><sup>3</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Cartoonist Al Capp, not one to burden his judgments with qualifications, let loose at abstract art yesterday. &#8220;The product of diseased minds,&#8221; he termed it during a chalk talk given at the Smithsonian Institution as part of Cavalcade of American Comics series.</p>
<p>So that no one might miss the point, the creator of &#8220;L&#8217;il Abner&#8221; offered a further definition. <strong>&#8220;Abstract art is a product of the untalented, sold by the unprincipled to the totally bewildered,&#8221;</strong> he declared with a demonic grin.</p></blockquote>
<p>Writer and quotation maven Robert Deis kindly pointed out Capp&#8217;s saying to <strong>QI</strong> when he was commenting on another statement that has an entry on this website. In 1977 famed rocker Frank Zappa said:</p>
<blockquote><p><strong>Most rock journalism is people who can’t write interviewing people who can’t talk for people who can’t read.</strong></p></blockquote>
<p>This corrosive remark was expressed with a similar syntactical style, and it was examined in <a href="http://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/07/07/rock-journalism/">this entry</a>. Robert Deis is the proprietor of the wonderfully entertaining websites: <a href="http://www.quotecounterquote.com/">Quote/Counterquote</a> and <a href="http://www.thisdayinquotes.com/">This Day In Quotes</a>.</p>
<p>In conclusion, in the 1960s Al Capp did employ multiple versions of the statement given by the questioner. The earliest located by <strong>QI</strong> was written in 1961.</p>
<p>(Thanks to Bob Deis for visiting the website and telling QI about this saying.)</p>
<div class="simple-footnotes"><p class="notes">Notes:</p><ol><li id="note-6196-1"> 1961 May 4, Boston Globe, Slim Pickin&#8217;s in an Art Library: A Sad Commentary On Sick Century by Al Capp, Quote Page 7, Boston, Massachusetts. (ProQuest) <a href="#return-note-6196-1">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6196-2"> 1963 June 25, Washington Post, Al Capp Frames Abstract Art, (Associated Press), Quote Page A1, Washington, D.C. (ProQuest) <a href="#return-note-6196-2">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6196-3"> 1966 June 12, Washington Post, Abstract Art Is Merely a Product Of Diseased Minds, Al Capp Asserts, Quote Page D1, Washington, D.C. (ProQuest) <a href="#return-note-6196-3">&#8617;</a></li></ol></div>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>As Soon as Government Management Begins It Upsets the Natural Equilibrium of Industrial Relations</title>
		<link>http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/04/30/equilibrium/</link>
		<comments>http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/04/30/equilibrium/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Apr 2013 19:38:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Adam Smith]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Everett Dean Martin]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[The Wealth of Nations]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[Adam Smith? Everett Dean Martin? Apocryphal? Dear Quote Investigator: Multiple books and websites attribute the following quotation to the influential economic thinker Adam Smith, but I think the ascription is incorrect: As soon as government management begins it upsets the &#8230; <a href="http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/04/30/equilibrium/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
				<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Adam Smith? Everett Dean Martin? Apocryphal?</strong></p>
<p><a href="http://quoteinvestigator.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/adamsmith03.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-6183" alt="adamsmith03" src="http://quoteinvestigator.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/adamsmith03.jpg" width="409" height="190" /></a><strong>Dear Quote Investigator:</strong> Multiple books and websites attribute the following quotation to the influential economic thinker Adam Smith, but I think the ascription is incorrect:</p>
<blockquote><p>As soon as government management begins it upsets the natural equilibrium of industrial relations, and each interference only requires further bureaucratic control until the end is the tyranny of the totalitarian state.</p></blockquote>
<p>Usually these words are assigned to the landmark 1775 text &#8220;The Wealth of Nations&#8221;, but I have carefully searched electronic copies of this work and concluded that the quote is absent. Furthermore, the vocabulary in the passage is chronologically incongruous. The word &#8220;totalitarian&#8221; first entered the English language only in the 1920s, and that is more than 130 years after the death of Adam Smith in 1790. Could you trace this quote to identify its true origin?</p>
<p><strong>Quote Investigator:</strong> Thanks to the questioner for the perceptive analysis accompanying the query. The passage above was not written by Adam Smith. It first appeared in a 1939 essay by Everett Dean Martin who was a Professor of Social Philosophy at Claremont Colleges in California. The statement was Martin&#8217;s summary analysis of Adam Smith&#8217;s economic philosophy. Martin used his own words, and he did not claim that he was quoting Smith.</p>
<p>Martin&#8217;s paper was presented at the Annual Convention of the Investment Banker&#8217;s Association of America in 1939 and then was published in the November issue of the journal &#8220;Investment Banking&#8221; under the title &#8220;Social Philosophies at War&#8221;. The following passage occurred shortly before the quotation in the essay and indicated the topic: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1939 November, Investment Banking, Volume 10, &#8220;Social Philosophies at War&#8221; by Everett Dean Martin, Start Page 10, Quote Page 12 and 13, Published by Investment Bankers&#8217; Association of America, Chicago, Illinois. (Verified with scans; Great thanks to Dennis Lien and the University of Minnesota library system)" id="return-note-6181-1" href="#note-6181-1"><sup>1</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Adam Smith, whose book, &#8220;The Wealth of Nations,&#8221; was written the same year as our Declaration of Independence, pointed out the moral and economic significance of Locke&#8217;s political philosophy. Individual responsibility is the very goal and meaning of free government. There must be no bureaucratic management of affairs which men had best decide for themselves.</p></blockquote>
<p>The following excerpt from Martin&#8217;s paper included the passage being traced:</p>
<blockquote><p>He held that not only is government incompetent to regulate by decree or by grant the affairs of individuals, but its meddling inevitably results in putting a premium on inefficiency. As soon as government management begins it upsets the natural equilibrium of industrial relations, and each interference only requires further bureaucratic control until the end is the tyranny of the totalitarian state.</p></blockquote>
<p>The final sentence above was later reassigned directly to Adam Smith. This misattribution has been widely disseminated, and today it is present in several quotation databases.</p>
<p>Here are additional comments and selected citations in chronological order.</p>
<p><span id="more-6181"></span>The sentence was considered worthy of emphasis in the 1939 paper. The words were presented as a lift-out quote inside a special display box. The prefatory descriptive phrase warned that the words between quotation marks were not a direct quote:</p>
<p><a href="http://quoteinvestigator.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/adampullquote02.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-6184" alt="adampullquote02" src="http://quoteinvestigator.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/adampullquote02.jpg" width="328" height="200" /></a>What happened next reflects a common mechanism for the creation of inaccurate quotations. Someone ignored the warning. A statement written by person X that was supposed to present an interpretation or summary of the viewpoint of person Y was later reassigned directly to person Y. The identity of person X, the actual creator of the quotation, was then forgotten. Here X is Everett Dean Martin and Y is Adam Smith.</p>
<p>If the reader wishes to see another example of this mechanism in operation he may visit <a href="http://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/11/07/rough-men/">this webpage</a> which discusses a popular quote that is incorrectly attached to George Orwell: People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.</p>
<p>The Martin quotation was included in &#8220;The Forbes Scrapbook of Thoughts on the Business of Life&#8221; by the 1968 edition. The statement matched the instance in the 1939 paper, but the compendium did not credit the words to Martin. Instead this attribution was given: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1968, The Forbes Scrapbook of Thoughts on the Business of Life, Quote Page 67, B. C. Forbes &amp; Sons Publishing Co., Inc., Forbes, Inc., New York. (Verified on paper) (The quote may have appeared in the 1950 edition, but QI has not checked that edition on paper)" id="return-note-6181-2" href="#note-6181-2"><sup>2</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Adam Smith (1776)</p></blockquote>
<p>In 1976 the CEO of a top brokerage firm writing in &#8220;Financial Executive&#8221; magazine employed the quotation and stated that it could be found in Smith&#8217;s famous opus. The phrasing of the last nine words was slightly altered: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1976 July, Financial Executive, &#8220;Wall Street, the government and the investor&#8221; by James W. Davant (Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Paine Webber Incorporated), Start Page 70, Quote page 75, Published by Financial Executives Institute, Morristown, New Jersey. (Verified on paper)" id="return-note-6181-3" href="#note-6181-3"><sup>3</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>The real problem is government itself. Adam Smith, the intellectual godfather of free enterprise, described this problem in The Wealth of Nations. He wrote: &#8220;As soon as government management begins, it upsets the natural equilibrium of industrial relations, and each interference only requires further bureaucratic control until there is the tyranny of the totalitarian state.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>The quotation with its new attribution continued to circulate. In 1977 The Spartanburg Herald of South Carolina printed the expression with credit to &#8220;Adam Smith (1776)&#8221;. <a class="simple-footnote" title="1977 August 4, The Spartanburg Herald, The End, Quote Page A4, Column 2, Spartanburg, South Carolina. (Google News Archive)" id="return-note-6181-4" href="#note-6181-4"><sup>4</sup></a></p>
<p>The leading reference work The Oxford English Dictionary has an entry for the word &#8220;totalitarian&#8221; which can function as an adjective and a noun. The first citation for the adjective is from 1926, and the noun appeared later. <a class="simple-footnote" title="Entry for &#8220;totalitarian&#8221;, adjective and noun, Oxford English Dictionary, Online Version. (OED Note: This entry has not yet been fully updated (first published 1986)) (Accessed at oed.com on April 30, 2013)" id="return-note-6181-5" href="#note-6181-5"><sup>5</sup></a> Future research may be able to push these dates back a few years. But Adam Smith died in 1790; hence, the word &#8220;totalitarian&#8221; would be prochronistic within a saying attributed to Smith.</p>
<p>In conclusion, the statement supplied by the questioner should properly be credited to Everett Dean Martin who was presenting his conception of Smith&#8217;s ideas. The words should not be ascribed to Smith himself.</p>
<p>(Great thanks to Gradivus Graham who asked about this quotation while noting that the word totalitarian was not used in the English language until the 1920s. Graham also determined that the statement was not present in &#8220;The Wealth of Nations&#8221;. QI constructed the question based on Graham&#8217;s query. Special thanks to Dennis Lien for scans of the November 1939 citation.)</p>
<div class="simple-footnotes"><p class="notes">Notes:</p><ol><li id="note-6181-1"> 1939 November, Investment Banking, Volume 10, &#8220;Social Philosophies at War&#8221; by Everett Dean Martin, Start Page 10, Quote Page 12 and 13, Published by Investment Bankers&#8217; Association of America, Chicago, Illinois. (Verified with scans; Great thanks to Dennis Lien and the University of Minnesota library system) <a href="#return-note-6181-1">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6181-2"> 1968, The Forbes Scrapbook of Thoughts on the Business of Life, Quote Page 67, B. C. Forbes &amp; Sons Publishing Co., Inc., Forbes, Inc., New York. (Verified on paper) (The quote may have appeared in the 1950 edition, but QI has not checked that edition on paper)  <a href="#return-note-6181-2">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6181-3"> 1976 July, Financial Executive, &#8220;Wall Street, the government and the investor&#8221; by James W. Davant (Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Paine Webber Incorporated), Start Page 70, Quote page 75, Published by Financial Executives Institute, Morristown, New Jersey. (Verified on paper)  <a href="#return-note-6181-3">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6181-4"> 1977 August 4, The Spartanburg Herald, The End, Quote Page A4, Column 2, Spartanburg, South Carolina. (Google News Archive)  <a href="#return-note-6181-4">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6181-5"> Entry for &#8220;totalitarian&#8221;, adjective and noun, Oxford English Dictionary, Online Version. (OED Note: This entry has not yet been fully updated (first published 1986)) (Accessed at oed.com on April 30, 2013) <a href="#return-note-6181-5">&#8617;</a></li></ol></div>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Beatles Rejection: We Don&#8217;t Like Their Sound. Groups of Guitars Are On Their Way Out</title>
		<link>http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/04/27/guitars-out/</link>
		<comments>http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/04/27/guitars-out/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Apr 2013 03:56:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Brian Epstein]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Beatles]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Decca]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Dick Rowe]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mike Smith]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://quoteinvestigator.com/?p=6153</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hunter Davies? Mike Smith? Dick Rowe? Brian Epstein? Apocryphal? Dear Quote Investigator: In the early days of the Beatles a record executive evaluated the band to decide whether to offer them a contract. He supposedly said: We don&#8217;t like their &#8230; <a href="http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/04/27/guitars-out/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
				<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Hunter Davies? Mike Smith? Dick Rowe? Brian Epstein? Apocryphal?</strong></p>
<p><a href="http://quoteinvestigator.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/beatlesdecca03.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-6155" alt="beatlesdecca03" src="http://quoteinvestigator.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/beatlesdecca03.jpg" width="540" height="170" /></a></p>
<p><strong>Dear Quote Investigator:</strong> In the early days of the Beatles a record executive evaluated the band to decide whether to offer them a contract. He supposedly said:</p>
<blockquote><p>We don&#8217;t like their sound, and guitar music is on the way out.</p></blockquote>
<p>I have heard some other simpler versions of the statement:</p>
<blockquote><p>Guitar groups are on the way out.<br />
Guitar bands are on their way out.</p></blockquote>
<p>The decision not to sign the Beatles was the biggest blunder in music history. Decca Records is usually named as the foolish company. Is there any truth to this anecdote?</p>
<p><strong>Quote Investigator:</strong> The earliest evidence of this story located by <strong>QI</strong> was printed in &#8220;The Beatles: The Authorized Biography&#8221; by Hunter Davies in 1968. The book described the efforts of the Beatles manager Brian Epstein to use his contacts in the music industry to obtain a recording contract for the group. An A&amp;R (Artists and Repertoire) man working for Decca named Mike Smith was very impressed with the band, and an audition was arranged and conducted on January 1, 1962 at the Decca Studios. Boldface has been added to the following passages: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1968, The Beatles: The Authorized Biography by Hunter Davies, Quote Page 131, McGraw-Hill Book Co., New York. (Verified on paper)" id="return-note-6153-1" href="#note-6153-1"><sup>1</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>The weeks passed and nothing happened. They continued playing their local dates on Merseyside, but all the time expecting Decca to whisk them to the big time. Then in March, after a lot of pestering, Brian heard from Dick Rowe, Mike Smith&#8217;s boss at Decca, that they had decided not to record the Beatles. &#8220;<strong>He told me they didn&#8217;t like the sound. Groups of guitars were on the way out.</strong> I told him I was completely confident that these boys were going to be bigger than Elvis Presley.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>In essence, the quote was printed in this key biographical work, but note that there was a time-delay and the statement was doubly-indirect. The book was published six years after the rejection, and Davies was presenting the words of manager Epstein who was relaying the evaluation of Decca executive Dick Rowe.</p>
<p>Here are additional selected citations in chronological order.</p>
<p><span id="more-6153"></span>In September 1968 LIFE magazine published an article by Hunter Davies based on the material in his Beatles book. The name of the Decca executive who communicated the bad news was not given in this version, but the words matched: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1968 September 13, LIFE, Volume 65, Number 11, The Beatles by Hunter Davies, (Part one of the &#8220;authentic unexpurgated biography&#8221;), Start Page 86, Quote Page 106, Published by Time Inc., New York. (Google Books full view)" id="return-note-6153-2" href="#note-6153-2"><sup>2</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Then in March, after a lot of pestering, Epstein heard from Decca. They had decided not to record the Beatles;<strong> they didn&#8217;t like the sound, and groups of guitars were on the way out.</strong></p></blockquote>
<p>Decca was only one of several companies that foolishly decided not to align themselves with the future supergroup as noted in the LIFE article:</p>
<blockquote><p>Meanwhile Epstein had begun a long and dispiriting trail around the other record companies; they all turned him down. Brian was often near to tears.</p></blockquote>
<p>In 1980 a writer in the Seattle Times newspaper of Washington discussed a book titled &#8220;The (Incomplete) Book of Failures&#8221; compiled by Stephen Pile of London. An instance of the quotation was reprinted from the book. Interestingly, the subject and verb form had been altered so that the words appeared to be a direct quote. This is a common modern version: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1980 March 9, Seattle Daily Times, Section: The Seattle Times Magazine, &#8216;Incompetence is what we&#8217;re good at&#8217; by John Hinterberger, Start Page 4, Quote Page 5, Column 1, Seattle, Washington. (GenealogyBank)" id="return-note-6153-3" href="#note-6153-3"><sup>3</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p><strong>&#8220;We don&#8217;t like their sound. Groups of guitars are on the way out,&#8221;</strong> a recording executive at Decca told the Beatles in 1962.</p></blockquote>
<p>In 1998 &#8220;The Experts Speak&#8221; compendium by Christopher Cerf and Victor Navasky included the modified quote, and in a footnote the book by Pile was acknowledged: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1998, The Experts Speak (Expanded and Updated Edition) by Christopher Cerf and Victor S Navasky, Quote Page 201 and 379, Villard Books, New York. (Verified on paper)" id="return-note-6153-4" href="#note-6153-4"><sup>4</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p><strong>&#8220;We don&#8217;t like their sound. Groups of guitars are on the way out.&#8221;</strong><br />
—Decca Recording Company executive, turning down the Beatles, 1962</p></blockquote>
<p>In conclusion, there is good evidence in &#8220;The Beatles: The Authorized Biography&#8221; based on comments from Brian Epstein that the Decca executive Dick Rowe delivered disheartening news to the Beatles in 1962. This was a monumental mistake for Decca. There is some uncertainty about the exact wording of the rejection because it was based on the memory of Brian Epstein of an event that probably occurred years earlier. The remark was made by Rowe in March 1962; Epstein died in August 1967; and the book was released in 1968.</p>
<p>(Thanks to correspondent Ronald Mc Gregor who reminded QI that Brian Epstein died in 1967.)</p>
<div class="simple-footnotes"><p class="notes">Notes:</p><ol><li id="note-6153-1"> 1968, The Beatles: The Authorized Biography by Hunter Davies, Quote Page 131, McGraw-Hill Book Co., New York. (Verified on paper) <a href="#return-note-6153-1">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6153-2"> 1968 September 13, LIFE, Volume 65, Number 11, The Beatles by Hunter Davies, (Part one of the &#8220;authentic unexpurgated biography&#8221;), Start Page 86, Quote Page 106, Published by Time Inc., New York. (Google Books full view) <a href="#return-note-6153-2">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6153-3"> 1980 March 9, Seattle Daily Times, Section: The Seattle Times Magazine, &#8216;Incompetence is what we&#8217;re good at&#8217; by John Hinterberger, Start Page 4, Quote Page 5, Column 1, Seattle, Washington. (GenealogyBank) <a href="#return-note-6153-3">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6153-4"> 1998, The Experts Speak (Expanded and Updated Edition) by Christopher Cerf and Victor S Navasky, Quote Page 201 and 379, Villard Books, New York. (Verified on paper) <a href="#return-note-6153-4">&#8617;</a></li></ol></div>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>I Never Forget a Face, But I&#8217;ll Make an Exception in Your Case</title>
		<link>http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/04/26/forget-a-face/</link>
		<comments>http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/04/26/forget-a-face/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Apr 2013 06:01:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Groucho Marx]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Alan Gale]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[Groucho Marx? Alan Gale? Anonymous? Dear Quote Investigator: When I am at a party I sometimes have trouble recalling the name of a person I have met before. But my recalcitrant memory has no difficulty remembering the line credited to &#8230; <a href="http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/04/26/forget-a-face/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
				<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Groucho Marx? Alan Gale? Anonymous?</strong></p>
<p><a href="http://quoteinvestigator.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Groucho02.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-6142" alt="Groucho02" src="http://quoteinvestigator.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Groucho02.jpg" width="397" height="200" /></a><strong>Dear Quote Investigator:</strong> When I am at a party I sometimes have trouble recalling the name of a person I have met before. But my recalcitrant memory has no difficulty remembering the line credited to Groucho Marx:</p>
<blockquote><p>I never forget a face, but in your case I&#8217;d be glad to make an exception.</p></blockquote>
<p>When I performed a search I found some other versions:</p>
<blockquote><p>I never forget a face, but I&#8217;ll make an exception in your case.<br />
I never forget a face—but I&#8217;m willing to make an exception in your case.</p></blockquote>
<p>Is this a genuine Groucho joke or is it just a quip with a fake nose and glasses?</p>
<p><strong>Quote Investigator:</strong> The earliest evidence known to <strong>QI</strong> all points to Groucho Marx as creator of this jape. The February 13, 1937 issue of &#8220;The Literary Digest&#8221; published a piece about psychology and memory. Conventional advice givers have emphasized the desirability of memorization, but this article accentuated the practice of forgetting. The author mentioned the now classic joke credited to Groucho: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1937 February 13, The Literary Digest, Psychology: Art of Forgetting: Magic Formula, Page 29, Funk &amp; Wagnalls Company, New York. (Unz)" id="return-note-6140-1" href="#note-6140-1"><sup>1</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>It&#8217;s the art of forgetting; and all it amounts to, really, is the reverse English of memory. In fact, some psychologists find it as important as the art of memory.<br />
Groucho Marx facetiously shows how effective it can be in his gag: &#8220;I never forget a face — but I&#8217;m going to make an exception in your case!&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>A few days later, a columnist named E. V. Durling in the Washington Post presented the same joke with a variant wording and an ascription to Groucho. This citation was listed in the key reference &#8220;The Yale Book of Quotations&#8221;: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1937 February 16, Los Angeles Times, On the Side with E. V. Durling, Page A1, Los Angeles, (ProQuest)" id="return-note-6140-2" href="#note-6140-2"><sup>2</sup></a> <a class="simple-footnote" title="2006, The Yale Book of Quotations by Fred R. Shapiro, Section Julius Henry &#8216;Groucho&#8217; Marx, Quote Page 498, Yale University Press, New Haven. (Verified on paper)" id="return-note-6140-3" href="#note-6140-3"><sup>3</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Groucho Marx. My nomination for Public Wisecracker No. 1. When and where was it Groucho said to somebody. &#8220;I never forget a face—but I&#8217;m going to make an exception in your case.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Here are additional selected citations in chronological order.</p>
<p><span id="more-6140"></span>The May 1941 issue of the mass-circulation Reader&#8217;s Digest printed a more elaborate version of the joke supplied by a contributing writer named Hugh Pentecost. The context was specified and two lines of dialog were given: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1941 May, Reader&#8217;s Digest, Volume 38, Party Chatter, Quote Page 66, Column 2, The Reader’s Digest Association. (Verified on paper)" id="return-note-6140-4" href="#note-6140-4"><sup>4</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>A celebrity hound approached Groucho Marx at a party. &#8220;You remember me, Mr. Marx. We met at the Glynthwaites&#8217; some months ago.&#8221;<br />
&#8220;I never forget a face,&#8221; Groucho replied, &#8220;but I&#8217;ll make an exception in your case.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>In 1941 and 1942 the Reader&#8217;s Digest version of the anecdote was disseminated further in the &#8220;Thesaurus of Anecdotes&#8221; edited by Edmund Fuller <a class="simple-footnote" title="1942, Thesaurus of Anecdotes, Edited by Edmund Fuller, Section: Rudeness, Quote Page 90, Crown Publishers, New York. (Verified on paper)" id="return-note-6140-5" href="#note-6140-5"><sup>5</sup></a> and in newspapers such as the Lime Springs Herald of Iowa. <a class="simple-footnote" title="1941 April 24, Lime Springs Herald, Under the Co-Co by M.N.X., Quote Page 1, Column 5, Lime Springs, Iowa. (GenealogyBank)" id="return-note-6140-6" href="#note-6140-6"><sup>6</sup></a></p>
<p>In 1944 the quotation collector Bennett Cerf reminisced in the pages of &#8220;The Saturday Review&#8221; about past shows by the Marx Brothers: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1944 April 1, The Saturday Review, Trade Winds by Bennett Cerf, Start Page 18, Quote Page 18, Saturday Review Associates, Inc., New York. (Unz)" id="return-note-6140-7" href="#note-6140-7"><sup>7</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>The funniest lines usually fell to Groucho. He revived on the radio the other night his &#8220;I never forget a face—but I&#8217;m willing to make an exception in your case.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>In 1946 the comedian Joey Adams published &#8220;From Gags to Riches&#8221; which included a version of the quip that remarkably was credited to someone who was not Groucho: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1946, From Gags to Riches by Joey Adams, Quote Page 111, Frederick Fell Inc., New York. (Verified on paper)" id="return-note-6140-8" href="#note-6140-8"><sup>8</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Alan Gale lets them have it with, &#8220;I never forget a face, but in your case I&#8217;ll make an exception.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>In 1949 Life magazine described remarks made by Groucho during his popular radio show &#8220;You Bet Your Life&#8221;. These lines were clearly reprised from his collection of past zingers: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1949 Nov 21, Life, Groucho&#8217;s Garland of Gags, Quote Page 139, Time Inc., New York. (Google Books full view)" id="return-note-6140-9" href="#note-6140-9"><sup>9</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>The insults are direct and paralyzing. To a tongue-tied contestant he muttered, &#8220;Either this man is dead or my watch has stopped.&#8221; To another he said thoughtfully, &#8220;I never forget a face, but in your case I am going to make an exception.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>In conclusion, <strong>QI</strong> believes that Groucho Marx coined this joke and popularized it. He received the earliest set of attributions and there was no strong rival. He also seems to have used the quip on multiple occasions. There was no fixed phrasing for the quotation, but the core joke was invariant.</p>
<div class="simple-footnotes"><p class="notes">Notes:</p><ol><li id="note-6140-1"> 1937 February 13, The Literary Digest, Psychology: Art of Forgetting: Magic Formula, Page 29, Funk &amp; Wagnalls Company, New York. (Unz)  <a href="#return-note-6140-1">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6140-2"> 1937 February 16, Los Angeles Times, On the Side with E. V. Durling, Page A1, Los Angeles, (ProQuest)  <a href="#return-note-6140-2">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6140-3"> 2006, The Yale Book of Quotations by Fred R. Shapiro, Section Julius Henry &#8216;Groucho&#8217; Marx, Quote Page 498, Yale University Press, New Haven. (Verified on paper)  <a href="#return-note-6140-3">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6140-4"> 1941 May, Reader&#8217;s Digest, Volume 38, Party Chatter, Quote Page 66, Column 2, The Reader’s Digest Association. (Verified on paper) <a href="#return-note-6140-4">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6140-5"> 1942, Thesaurus of Anecdotes, Edited by Edmund Fuller, Section: Rudeness, Quote Page 90, Crown Publishers, New York. (Verified on paper)  <a href="#return-note-6140-5">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6140-6"> 1941 April 24, Lime Springs Herald, Under the Co-Co by M.N.X., Quote Page 1, Column 5, Lime Springs, Iowa. (GenealogyBank) <a href="#return-note-6140-6">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6140-7"> 1944 April 1, The Saturday Review, Trade Winds by Bennett Cerf, Start Page 18, Quote Page 18, Saturday Review Associates, Inc., New York. (Unz) <a href="#return-note-6140-7">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6140-8"> 1946, From Gags to Riches by Joey Adams, Quote Page 111, Frederick Fell Inc., New York. (Verified on paper) <a href="#return-note-6140-8">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6140-9"> 1949 Nov 21, Life, Groucho&#8217;s Garland of Gags, Quote Page 139, Time Inc., New York. (Google Books full view) <a href="#return-note-6140-9">&#8617;</a></li></ol></div>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>&#8220;What Do You Think of Western Civilization?&#8221; &#8220;I Think It Would Be a Good Idea&#8221;</title>
		<link>http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/04/23/good-idea/</link>
		<comments>http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/04/23/good-idea/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Apr 2013 08:23:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Mohandas Gandhi]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[Mohandas Gandhi? Apocryphal? Dear Quote Investigator: Mahatma Gandhi is credited with a brilliantly acerbic remark made in response to a question from a self-satisfied journalist: Journalist: What do you think of Western civilization? Gandhi: I think it would be a &#8230; <a href="http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/04/23/good-idea/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
				<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Mohandas Gandhi? Apocryphal?</strong></p>
<p><a href="http://quoteinvestigator.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Gandhi01.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-6082" alt="Gandhi01" src="http://quoteinvestigator.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Gandhi01.jpg" width="456" height="210" /></a><strong>Dear Quote Investigator:</strong> Mahatma Gandhi is credited with a brilliantly acerbic remark made in response to a question from a self-satisfied journalist:</p>
<blockquote><p>Journalist: What do you think of Western civilization?<br />
Gandhi: I think it would be a good idea.</p></blockquote>
<p>Unfortunately, I have not been able to find any solid citations for this sharp exchange. The best I have located is second-hand information in the 1970s. Is there any good support for this quote?</p>
<p><strong>Quote Investigator:</strong> Mohandas Gandhi died in 1948, and the earliest evidence <strong>QI</strong> has located appeared many years later in January 1967. The Seattle Times newspaper stated that the exchange was mentioned in a television documentary on a major U.S. network: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1967 January 23, Seattle Times, &#8220;Ad Paid Off For Swedish Beauty&#8221; by C. J. Skreen, Quote Page 6, Column 7, Seattle, Washington. (GenealogyBank)" id="return-note-6081-1" href="#note-6081-1"><sup>1</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Quote of the week from the superb C.B.S. documentary, &#8220;The Italians&#8221;: Mahatma Gandhi, on being asked, &#8220;What do you think of Western civilization?,&#8221; was reported to have answered, &#8220;I think it would be a good idea&#8221;.</p></blockquote>
<p>According to the website of the Paley Center for Media the documentary &#8220;The Italians&#8221; was broadcast as a CBS News Special on January 17, 1967. The program was adapted from a book, and the author acted as the host: <a class="simple-footnote" title="The Paley Center for Media website, Webpage on documentary: CBS News Special: The Italians (TV), Broadcast Date: January 17, 1967 Tuesday 10:00 PM, Running Time: 1:00:00, Color/B&amp;W: Color, Executive Producer: Perry Wolff, Producer: Bernard Birnbaum, Adapted by: Luigi Barzini. (Accessed paleycenter.org on April 23, 2013) link" id="return-note-6081-2" href="#note-6081-2"><sup>2</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>A documentary freely adapted from Luigi Barzini&#8217;s book &#8220;The Italians.&#8221; Barzini presides over a selective tour of Italy, discussing the Italian people, their culture, customs, and history.</p></blockquote>
<p>In September 1967 the dialog was disseminated in the mass-circulation periodical Reader’s Digest. The words were once again connected to a documentary on CBS: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1967 September, Reader’s Digest, Answer Men, (Set of five miscellaneous quotations), Page 52, Volume 91, The Reader’s Digest Association. (Verified on microfilm)" id="return-note-6081-3" href="#note-6081-3"><sup>3</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>MOHANDAS GANDHI was once asked: &#8220;What do you think of Western civilization?&#8221; &#8220;I think it would be a good idea,&#8221; he replied.<br />
— CBS News Special, &#8220;The Italians&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Here are additional selected citations and commentary.</p>
<p><span id="more-6081"></span>In 1968 a collection containing the article &#8220;A Definition of Folklore&#8221; by Francis Lee Utley was published, and the author offered a slight variant of the quote ascribed to Gandhi: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1968, Our Living Traditions: An Introduction to American Folklore, Edited by Tristram Potter Coffin, &#8220;A Definition of Folklore&#8221; by Francis Lee Utley, Start Page 3, Quote Page 4, Basic Books, New York. (Questia)" id="return-note-6081-4" href="#note-6081-4"><sup>4</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>They say that when Mahatma Gandhi was asked what he thought of Western civilization, he replied that he thought it might be a good idea.</p></blockquote>
<p>Also in 1968 a collection of essays was published that included &#8220;America Revisited: Radicalism and Alienation&#8221; by William Jovanovich. The following instance of the quote was presented by the author. This citation is listed in the key reference The Yale Book of Quotations: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1968, America Now, Edited by John G. Kirk, &#8220;America Revisited: Radicalism and Alienation&#8221; by William Jovanovich, Start Page 257, Quote Page 275, Atheneum, New York. (Verified on paper)" id="return-note-6081-5" href="#note-6081-5"><sup>5</sup></a> <a class="simple-footnote" title="2006, The Yale Book of Quotations by Fred R. Shapiro, Section Mohandas Karamchand (Mahatma) Gandhi, Quote Page 299, Yale University Press, New Haven. (Verified on paper)" id="return-note-6081-6" href="#note-6081-6"><sup>6</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Someone once asked Mahatma Gandhi what he thought of Western civilization. &#8220;I think it would be a good idea,&#8221; he said.</p></blockquote>
<p>In 1969 the journal Continuum from St. Xavier College released a special issue about the religious thinker Thomas Merton, and the author W. H. Ferry mentioned the famous exchange: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1969 Summer, Continuum, The Difference He Made by W. H. Ferry, Start Page 319, Quote Page 322, St. Xavier College, Chicago, Illinois. (Verified on microfilm)" id="return-note-6081-7" href="#note-6081-7"><sup>7</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Like my favorite story about Gandhi: &#8220;What do you think of Western civilization?&#8221; &#8220;I think it would be a good idea.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>In 1970 the dialog appeared in an issue of The Journal of Geography as an epigraph, and the source was listed as Luigi Barzini. As noted above, Barzini wrote the book titled &#8220;The Italians&#8221; and hosted the CBS documentary: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1970 May, The Journal of Geography, Volume 69, Number 5, &#8220;Nationalism in Early American Geographies: 1784-1845&#8243; by Michael F. Antonelli, Start Page 301, Quote Page 301, National Council for Geographic Education, Chicago Illinois. (Verified on paper)" id="return-note-6081-8" href="#note-6081-8"><sup>8</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Interviewer: Mr. Gandhi, what do you think about Western civilization?<br />
Gandhi: I think it would be a good idea.<br />
—Quoted by Luigi Barzini</p></blockquote>
<p>In 1971 a columnist in the Christian Science Monitor stated the exchange had entered the realm of graffiti: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1971 August 24, Christian Science Monitor, Focus on writing on the wall by Gil Scott, Quote Page 1, Boston, Massachusetts. (ProQuest)" id="return-note-6081-9" href="#note-6081-9"><sup>9</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>The words were written neatly in white paint on a wall:<br />
Mr. Gandhi, what do you think of western civilization?<br />
I think it would be a good idea.</p>
<p>This is the kind of thought-provoking graffito, or wall scrawl, that one can find in myriad locales throughout the world.</p></blockquote>
<p>In 1979 a variant of the quotation was given in a book by the prominent economic thinker E. F. Schumacher. The phrase &#8220;modern civilization&#8221; was used instead of &#8220;Western civilization&#8221; in the statement attributed to Gandhi. Schumacher stated that he saw the dialog on film, but researchers have so far been unable to locate this film footage: <a class="simple-footnote" title="1985, Good Work by E. F. Schumacher, Quote Page 62, Harper Torchbooks, New York. (Reprint of edition from Harper &amp; Row, New York copyrighted 1979) (Verified on paper)" id="return-note-6081-10" href="#note-6081-10"><sup>10</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Recently I saw a film of Gandhi when he came to England in 1930. He disembarked in Southampton and on the gangway he was already overwhelmed by journalists asking questions. One of them asked, &#8220;Mr. Gandhi, what do you think of modern civilization?&#8221; And Mr. Gandhi said, &#8220;That would be a good idea.&#8221; I think now the time has come when we can implement this good idea.</p></blockquote>
<p>Quotation expert Ralph Keyes has noted discrepancies in the account of Schumacher: <a class="simple-footnote" title="2006, The Quote Verifier by Ralph Keyes, Page 75, St Martin’s Griffin, New York. (Verified on paper)" id="return-note-6081-11" href="#note-6081-11"><sup>11</sup></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Gandhi did not visit England in 1930. He did attend a roundtable conference on India&#8217;s future in London the following year. Standard biographies of Gandhi do not report his making any such quip as he disembarked.</p></blockquote>
<p>In conclusion, the current evidence supporting the quotation&#8217;s attribution to Mohandas Gandhi is weak. The earliest known appearance of the exchange is almost thirty years after the death of Gandhi. The words apparently can be traced back to a television documentary, and the article in the Seattle Times about the program employed the equivocal phrase: &#8220;was reported to have answered&#8221;. Also, the later claim made by Schumacher is flawed.</p>
<p>Perhaps future evidence will strengthen the case, but for now, <strong>QI</strong> would say that the quote is not well-supported and may be apocryphal.</p>
<div class="simple-footnotes"><p class="notes">Notes:</p><ol><li id="note-6081-1"> 1967 January 23, Seattle Times, &#8220;Ad Paid Off For Swedish Beauty&#8221; by C. J. Skreen, Quote Page 6, Column 7, Seattle, Washington. (GenealogyBank)  <a href="#return-note-6081-1">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6081-2"> The Paley Center for Media website, Webpage on documentary: CBS News Special: The Italians (TV), Broadcast Date: January 17, 1967 Tuesday 10:00 PM, Running Time: 1:00:00, Color/B&amp;W: Color, Executive Producer: Perry Wolff, Producer: Bernard Birnbaum, Adapted by: Luigi Barzini. (Accessed paleycenter.org on April 23, 2013) <a href="http://www.paleycenter.org/collection/item/?q=cbs&amp;p=19&amp;item=T78:0540">link</a>  <a href="#return-note-6081-2">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6081-3"> 1967 September, Reader’s Digest, Answer Men, (Set of five miscellaneous quotations), Page 52, Volume 91, The Reader’s Digest Association. (Verified on microfilm)  <a href="#return-note-6081-3">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6081-4"> 1968, Our Living Traditions: An Introduction to American Folklore, Edited by Tristram Potter Coffin, &#8220;A Definition of Folklore&#8221; by Francis Lee Utley, Start Page 3, Quote Page 4, Basic Books, New York. (Questia)  <a href="#return-note-6081-4">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6081-5"> 1968, America Now, Edited by John G. Kirk, &#8220;America Revisited: Radicalism and Alienation&#8221; by William Jovanovich, Start Page 257, Quote Page 275, Atheneum, New York. (Verified on paper)  <a href="#return-note-6081-5">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6081-6"> 2006, The Yale Book of Quotations by Fred R. Shapiro, Section Mohandas Karamchand (Mahatma) Gandhi, Quote Page 299, Yale University Press, New Haven. (Verified on paper)  <a href="#return-note-6081-6">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6081-7"> 1969 Summer, Continuum, The Difference He Made by W. H. Ferry, Start Page 319, Quote Page 322, St. Xavier College, Chicago, Illinois. (Verified on microfilm)  <a href="#return-note-6081-7">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6081-8"> 1970 May, The Journal of Geography, Volume 69, Number 5, &#8220;Nationalism in Early American Geographies: 1784-1845&#8243; by Michael F. Antonelli, Start Page 301, Quote Page 301, National Council for Geographic Education, Chicago Illinois. (Verified on paper)  <a href="#return-note-6081-8">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6081-9"> 1971 August 24, Christian Science Monitor, Focus on writing on the wall by Gil Scott, Quote Page 1, Boston, Massachusetts. (ProQuest)  <a href="#return-note-6081-9">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6081-10"> 1985, Good Work by E. F. Schumacher, Quote Page 62, Harper Torchbooks, New York. (Reprint of edition from Harper &amp; Row, New York copyrighted 1979) (Verified on paper)  <a href="#return-note-6081-10">&#8617;</a></li><li id="note-6081-11"> 2006, The Quote Verifier by Ralph Keyes, Page 75, St Martin’s Griffin, New York. (Verified on paper)  <a href="#return-note-6081-11">&#8617;</a></li></ol></div>]]></content:encoded>
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