There Are Old Traders and Bold Traders, But There Are No Old, Bold Traders

Bob Dinda? Tom Clapp? Jerry Heaster? W. Thomas Matthews? Ed Seykota? Anonymous?

Dear Quote Investigator: Engaging in risky trades of financial instruments endangers one’s financial health. A Wall Street adage states:

There are old traders and bold traders, but there are no old, bold traders.

Would you please explore the provenance of this saying?

Quote Investigator: The earliest match located by QI appeared in August 1982 within a newspaper column written by Tom Clapp of the financial services firm Edward D. Jones & Company. Clapp did not claim credit:^[1] 1982 August 16, The Alliance Times-Herald, Financial Focus, Quote Page 8, Column 3, Alliance, Nebraska. (Newspapers_com)

Quote for the week: “There are old traders around and bold traders, but there are no old, bold traders around.” — Bob Dinda

Below are additional selected citations in chronological order.

The adage above is a member of a family of sayings that fit this template:

There are old X, and there are bold X, but there are no old bold X.

The following instance about pilots was the earliest located by QI. It appeared in “Safety Education” in May 1931:^[2]1931 May, Safety Education: A Magazine of the Good Adventure, How Good Pilots Are Made by Dorothy Verrill, Start Page 231, Quote Page 231, Column 1, Education Division of the National Safety Council, … Continue reading

“There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots”

A separate article about this family is available here. The article you are reading is centered on the “traders” expression. The second earliest citation for this expression located by QI occurred in December 1983 within a column by Jerry Heaster of the “The Kansas City Star” which reprinted numerous sayings from “The Stock Trader’s Almanac” including the following:^[3]1983 December 19, The Kansas City Star, Capsule wisdom, Trader’s Almanac style by Jerry Heaster (The Star’s business & financial editor), Quote Page 6A, Column 5 and 6, Kansas City, Missouri. … Continue reading

There are old traders around and there are bold traders around, but there are no old, bold traders around. (Bob Dinda)

In 1986 “The Great Business Quotations” contained an entry for a phrasing that differed by a single word:^[4] 1986, The Great Business Quotations, Compiled by Rolf B. White, Topic: Stockmarket, Quote Page 139, Lyle Stuart Inc, Secaucus, New Jersey. (Verified with scans)

There are old traders around and bold traders around, but there are no old, bold traders around. BOB DINDA

In 1987 W. Thomas Matthews, a vice president at financial company Smith Barney, employed an instance with an anonymous attribution:^[5]1987 February 2, The Asbury Park Press, Area brokers busy in high-volume trading by Joseph Cavaluzzi (Press Staff Writer), Start Page D01, Quote Page D10, Column 2, Asbury Park, New Jersey. … Continue reading

Matthews, too, says successful investors are the ones who are in the market for the long run. “There’s a saying: ‘There’s a lot of old traders. There’s a lot of bold traders. There aren’t any old, bold traders,’” he quips.

In 1989 “Market Wizards: Interviews with Top Traders” contained an interview with prominent commodities trader Ed Seykota who employed the maxim:^[6]1989, Market Wizards: Interviews with Top Traders by Jack D. Schwager, Chapter: Ed Seykota — Everybody Gets What They Want, Quote Page 159, New York Institute of Finance: A Division of Simon & … Continue reading

The key to long-term survival and prosperity has a lot to do with the money management techniques incorporated into the technical system. There are old traders and there are bold traders, but there are very few old, bold traders.

In 2001 “The Herald-Sun” of Durham, North Carolina printed a variant that named a specific type of investor:^[7] 2001 September 26, The Herald-Sun, Biotechs might stop slump in 2002 by Malcolm Berko (Personal Finance), Quote Page B2, Column 2, Durham, North Carolina. (Newspapers_com)

There are old biotech investors and there are bold biotech investors but there are no old bold biotech investors.

In 2003 “National Post” of Toronto, Canada printed a variant with “brokers” instead of “traders”:^[8] 2003 May 15, National Post, Personal Finance: Advisors speak their minds by Jonathan Chevreau, Quote Page IN3, Column 6, Toronto, Ontario, Canada. (Newspapers_com)

Veteran advisor Ian Cubitt, of Vancouver-based Odlum Brown, says “common sense suggests you pick an older broker who has experienced several ups and downs in market cycles. Like airline pilots, there are old brokers and bold brokers but no old bold brokers.”

A tweet in 2020 employed a “crypto” variant:^[9] Tweet, From: Minima @Minima_Global, Time: 8:49 AM, Date: September 4, 2020, Text: There are old crypto traders … (Accessed on twitter.com on June 7, 2022) link

There are old crypto traders
There are bold crypto traders
There are NO old bold crypto traders

In conclusion, Bob Dinda is the leading candidate for creator of this expression based on the August 16, 1982 citation. This adage is a member of a family with a long history. Similar sayings about pilots were circulating by 1931.

Image Notes: Public domain illustration of New York Stock Exchange trading floor circa 1883. Image has been cropped and resized.

(Great thanks to Jim O’Shaughnessy whose inquiry about the “traders” version of this saying led QI to formulate this question and perform this exploration. Many thanks to researcher Barry Popik who has explored the “pilots” and “traders” versions of this saying. Popik found citations beginning in June 1985 for the “traders” saying , and he highlighted Bob Dinda as a possible originator.)