There Are Old Pilots, and There Are Bold Pilots, But There Are No Old, Bold Pilots

Dorothy Verrill? Charles L. Wright? Harry D. Copland? Harry Copewell? Anonymous?

Dear Quote Investigator: The adjective “bold” has positive connotations. Yet, some difficult and dangerous professions do not countenance the inherent riskiness of bold actions. Here is the template of a pertinent adage:

There are old X, and there are bold X, but there are no old bold X.

This saying has been applied to race car drivers, mushroom hunters, airplane pilots, stock traders, and others. Would you please explore this topic?

Quote Investigator: The earliest instance in this family of expressions located by QI appeared in “Safety Education: A Magazine of the Good Adventure” in May 1931. Airplane pilot Dorothy Verrill wrote about her experiences learning to fly. Boldface added to excerpts by QI:^[1]1931 May, Safety Education: A Magazine of the Good Adventure, How Good Pilots Are Made by Dorothy Verrill, Start Page 231, Quote Page 231, Column 1, Education Division of the National Safety Council, … Continue reading

“There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots” said my instructor, one day, after we had come down from practising landings, “and it’s not a good idea to make a climbing turn at low altitude right after the take-off, as you did just now. It may be pretty flying, and it may be exciting—give you a thrill—but it’s not safe, especially for a student.”

Dorothy Verrill ascribed the saying to her flight instructor. QI examined articles in “The Hartford Courant” of Connecticut^[2] 1929 February 20, The Hartford Courant, Aviation by Mary Goodrich, Quote Page 6, Column 7, Hartford, Connecticut. (Newspapers_com) and “The Kansas City Star” of Missouri^[3]1929 March 31, The Kansas City Star, A Woman’s Temper Defeats Mental Hazards in Flying by Dorothy Verrill Yates, (North American Newspaper Alliance), Quote Page 17A, Column 3, Kansas City, … Continue reading which identified Lieutenant Charles L. Wright of the L & H Aircraft Corporation as Verrill’s instructor. Thus, Wright is currently one of the leading candidates for creator of this expression.

Below are additional selected citations in chronological order.

A wide variety of terms have been substituted into the template under examination. The following list presents a sampling with dates:

1931 May: pilots
1935 Aug 4: flyer
1941 Jun 21: fliers
1944 Nov 16: drivers
1959 May 31: auto racers
1962 Sep 14: mushroom eaters
1964 Mar 5: fighters
1964 Jun 16: actors
1967 Apr 2: Foreign Service officers
1982 Aug 16: traders
1993 Mar 16: adventurers
1998 Feb: space travelers

In September 1931 Dorothy Verrill published a short story in “The American Girl” magazine. The main character was named Patsy Todd, and the saying was spoken by her father Pat Todd who credited Harry Copewell. QI believes all these characters were fictional:^[4]1931 September, The American Girl: The Magazine for All Girls Published by the Girl Scouts, Patsy Takes the Mail by Dorothy Verrill, Start Page 7, Quote Page 7, Column 2, The American Girl, New … Continue reading

“Remember there are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots. That’s a saying of Harry Copewell’s up at Boston, and he ought to know. He’s been flying since 1911 and still at it.”

In May 1933 the “Nottingham Evening Post” of England printed excerpts from an air safety booklet entitled “Air Sense” which included the following three items. The old/bold rhyme occurred in a different phrase:^[5] 1933 May 6, Nottingham Evening Post, “Better Be Late Than The Late”, Quote Page 1, Column 6, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England. (British Newspaper Archive)

Flying calls for care, not courage.
It’s time to fly high, not high time to die.
It’s better to be an old pilot than a bold pilot.

In June 1934 “The Boston Herald” of Massachusetts attributed the expression to Harry D. Copland:^[6] 1934 June 10, The Boston Herald, Section: Aviation, N.E. Aviation Notes: Missionary Fliers, Quote Page 6, Column 2, Boston, Massachusetts. (GenealogyBank)

Harry D. Copland of Hingham, Mass., former head of the Curtiss-Wright Flying Service in Boston and known throughout the flying world, is once more adding to his exploits in his own quiet way.

Copland is one of the oldest pilots in experience in the U. S. He served in the royal flying corps as a flight commander and incredible as it may sound he has been flying since 1911. If my arithmetic is correct that is 23 years. Given to sage remarks, Copland’s statement, “There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots,” has become famous throughout the land.

Interestingly, Verrill’s short story credited the character Harry Copewell which is similar to Harry Copland. Also, Verrill asserted that Copewell began flying in 1911 and was based in Boston, Massachusetts. Both of these biographical details fit Copland. Verrill may have fictionalized Copland’s name, or she may have misremembered it. QI believes that Harry D. Copland is the second leading candidate for creator of this expression.

In December 1934 “The Daily Telegraph” of London reported that the variant phrase continued to circulate in the U.K.:^[7] 1934 December 15, The Daily Telegraph, R.A.F.’s Great 1934 Record by Major C. C. Turner, Quote Page 15, Column 7, London, England. (Newspapers_com)

On the walls of some of the flying clubs is seen the excellent reminder: “It is better to be an old pilot than a bold pilot.”

In August 1935 an article in the “Chicago Sunday Tribune” of Illinois employed “flyer” instead of “pilots” within a shortened expression:^[8] 1935 August 4, Chicago Sunday Tribune, Miller Brothers, Air Pilots, Add Flying to Their Farming by Oney Fred Sweet, Part 3, Quote Page 1, Column 6, Chicago, Illinois. (Newspapers_com)

No Old and Bold Flyers.
“I believe in proper caution, and in the saying that there is no such individual as an old and bold flyer. The too bold flyer doesn’t get to be old. Flying is like anything else; it becomes easy if your interest in it is intense.”

In June 1936 “The Boston Herald” published a profile of Harry Copland and credited him again with the saying:^[9] 1936 April 19, The Boston Herald, Section: Magazine, Wearing Wings Since He Was 16 by Dwight Shepler, Quote Page 6, Column 6, Boston, Massachusetts. (GenealogyBank)

As a member of the “Early Birds,” Copland has been flying around as long as any of them. “Contrary to the general conception,” says he, “aviation is no place for the reckless person.” Our early bird has often been quoted as saying: “There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots.”

In 1941 a newspaper in Birmingham, Alabama reported that First Lieutenant R. A Breilweiser spoke at a local meeting of the Civitan Club. He used a version of the saying with “fliers”:^[10] 1941 June 21, The Birmingham News, Men Past 27 Useless For Combat Flying, Civitans Are Told, Quote Page 5, Column 1, Birmingham, Alabama. (Newspapers_com)

He illustrated his point with an old saying: “There are bold fliers and there are old fliers, but there are no old bold fliers.”

In 1944 a newspaper in Oakdale, California printed safety guidelines for driving in wet weather from a taxicab company bulletin. The bulletin used a version of the saying with “drivers”:^[11] 1944 November 16, Oakdale Leader, Women Warned in Driving Hazards, Quote Page 9, Column 1, Oakdale, California. (Newspapers_com)

“Avoid speed at all costs. There are old drivers and bold, reckless drivers, but there are no old, bold drivers. All the latter are either crippled, dead or have eliminated themselves from the business.”

In 1959 “The New York Times” used the expression with “auto racers” as a headline:^[12] 1959 May 31, New York Times, Schell Out to Prove the Adage About Old and Bold Auto Racers by Robert Daley (Special to The New York Times), Quote Page S8, Column 3, New York. (ProQuest)

Schell Out to Prove the Adage About Old and Bold Auto Racers

In 1962 a newspaper in Alton, Illinois printed an instance with “mushroom eaters”:^[13] 1962 September 14, Alton Evening Telegraph, Safeguard Your Health: Mushroom Season Brings Warning from Physician by Illinois Medical Society, Quote Page 10, Column 7, Alton, Illinois. (Newspapers_com)

If you’re not sure whether a mushroom is poisonous or not, pass it up, Dr. Kowalski advises, reminding readers that “There are old mushroom eaters and there are bold mushroom eaters, but there are no old, bold mushroom eaters.”

In March 1964 “The Philadelphia Inquirer” of Pennsylvania published an instance in the pugilistic domain:^[14] 1964 March 5, The Philadelphia Inquirer, Time Out: Castro to Briscoe in 5 Tough Years by Gene Courtney (The Inquirer Staff), Quote Page 52, Column 6, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. (Newspapers_com)

What Charley probably means is that there are old fighters and there are bold fighters, but there are no old, bold fighters.

In June 1964 the “Pittsburgh Post-Gazette” printed a piece about an upcoming film titled “Those Magnificent Men in Their Flying Machines”. One of the stars substituted “actor” into the saying:^[15] 1964 June 16, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Morley’s a Confusing Man By Lee McInerney, Quote Page 15, Column 3, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. (ProQuest)

The four planes up in the air, being piloted by long-time English fliers, were a contradiction to that old one about “There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots.”

Stuart Whitman, also in the film, said bravely, as the planes chugged through the English skies, “Well, I’ve been taxiing my plane around,” which means on the ground. There are no old, bold actors.

In 1967 “Parade” magazine printed an instance in the domain of diplomacy:^[16] 1967 April 2, Independent Star-News, Section: Parade Magazine, Let’s Shake Up The State Department by Jack Anderson, Quote Page 14, Column 4, Pasadena, California. (Newspapers_com)

Explained one young diplomat to PARADE: “There are old Foreign Service officers and bold Foreign Service officers, but there are no old, bold Foreign Service officers.”

In 1982 a newspaper in Alliance, Nebraska published an instance in the domain of finance:^[17] 1982 August 16, The Alliance Times-Herald, Financial Focus, Quote Page 8, Column 3, Alliance, Nebraska. (Newspapers_com)

Quote for the week: “There are old traders around and bold traders, but there are no old, bold traders around.” — Bob Dinda

In 1993 “The Washington Post” published an article about risky sports and activities:^[18] 1993 March 16, The Washington Post, Courage vs. Skill: The Difference Can Mean Your Life or Your Death by Angus Phillips, Start Page C1, Quote Page C7, Column 6, Washington, D.C. (ProQuest)

There are old adventurers and bold adventurers, the saying goes, but precious few old, bold adventurers.

In 1998 the periodical “Texas Medicine” posed a question about space travel and printed replies from readers:^[19] 1998 February, Texas Medicine, Back Talk, Quote Page 92, Column 1, Texas Medical Association, Austin, Texas. (Internet Archive at archive.org)

Question: Would you ever consider blasting off into space? Why or why not?

“There are bold space travelers and old space travelers, but not a lot of old, bold space travelers!”
Joseph M. Glicksman, MD, 61
dermatology, Corsicana

In conclusion, the earliest member of this family of sayings located by QI appeared in May 1931; the expression referred to airplane pilots. The originator remains uncertain. Currently, Charles L. Wright and Harry D. Copland are the two leading candidates. Pioneering woman pilot Dorothy Verrill helped to popularize the saying. Many variants have entered circulation during the ensuing decades.

Image Notes: Public domain illustration of an airplane from “The Aeroplane Speaks” (1917) By H. Barber. Image has been cropped, resized, and retouched.

(Great thanks to Jim O’Shaughnessy whose inquiry about the “traders” version of this saying led QI to formulate this question and perform this exploration. Many thanks to researcher Barry Popik who has explored the “pilots” and “traders” versions of this saying. Popik found citations beginning in June 1934, and he highlighted Harry Copland as a possible originator. Thanks to Jonathan Lighter, Laurence Horn, George Thompson, Charles C. Doyle for valuable comments and citations.

Additional thanks to Katherine Harper who located the valuable September 1931 citation. Harper mentioned variants with mushroom hunters, electricians, and others. Further thanks to Donna Halper who helpfully determined that Charles Wright was the instructor of Dorothy Verrill. Halper also mentioned variants with adventurers and flyers. Special thanks to Dennis Lien and the University of Minnesota Library System. Lien accessed the crucial May 1931 citation.)