Nancy Astor – Quote Investigator®

The Penalty of Success Is To Be Bored By the People Who Used To Snub You

Mary Wilson Little? Nancy Astor? Charley Jones? Cholly Knickerbocker? Earl Wilson? Junius? Anonymous?

Dear Quote Investigator: If one climbs the social ladder the result can be surprising. People who once snubbed you will allow you to enter their social circle. Yet, attending their gatherings often results in boredom. This observation has been attributed to the U.S. author Mary Wilson Little and the U.K. politician Nancy Astor. Would you please explore this topic?

Quote Investigator: The earliest evidence located by QI appeared in several newspapers in August 1880. The creator was initially anonymous. Mary Wilson Little claimed authorship in 1897. Over the decades the phrasing has evolved, and the ascription has shifted. Here is a sampling with dates:

1880 Aug 10: The penalty of success is to be bored by the attentions of people who used to snub you. (Anon)

1880 Aug 17: The penalty of success is to be bored by the attention of people who used to snub you. (Anon)

1881 May 12: The penalty of success is to be bored by people who used to snub you. (Anon)

1897: The penalty of success is to be bored by the attentions of people who formerly snubbed you. ( M. W. L. – Mary Wilson Little)

1913 Oct 07: One of the penalties of success is to be bored by the attentions of the people who used to snub you. (Anon)

1925 Oct 06: The penalty of success is to be bored by the attention of people who formally snubbed you. (Anon)

1941 Jan 29: The penalty of success is to be bored by the attentions of people who formerly snubbed you. (The Office Cat by Junius)

1949: The penalty of success is to be bored by the attentions of people who formerly snubbed you. (Attributed to Mary Wilson Little by Evan Esar)

1953 May 28: The penalty of success is to be bored by the people who used to snub you. (Attributed to Charley Jones by Earl Wilson)

1953 July 06: The penalty of success is to be bored by the people who used to snub you. (Attributed to Nancy Astor by Cholly Knickerbocker)

Below are selected citations in chronological order.

Continue reading The Penalty of Success Is To Be Bored By the People Who Used To Snub You

“If I Were Your Wife I’d Put Poison in Your Tea!” “If I Were Your Husband I’d Drink It”

Winston Churchill? Nancy Astor? Marshall Pinckney Wilder? Patrick O’Dowd? David Lloyd George? George Bernard Shaw? Groucho Marx? Anonymous?

Dear Quote Investigator: There is a famous anecdote in which an exasperated individual fantasizes aloud about giving poison to another person. The sharp rejoinder is surprising and hilarious. Usually the two named participants are Nancy Astor and Winston Churchill. Are you familiar with this story? Would you please explore this topic?

Quote Investigator: The earliest evidence known to QI of a strongly matching jest was published in November 1899. The excerpt below from an Oswego, New York newspaper acknowledged a source called the “Listener”. Neither participant was identified. Boldface has been added to excerpts:^[1] 1899 November 18, Oswego Daily Times, Right and Left, (Untitled short item), Quote Page 2, Column 4, Oswego, New York. (Old Fulton)

The “Listener” reports the following from the subway: On one of the recent warm days a sour-visaged, fussy lady got on one of the smoking seats on an open car in the subway.

Next her sat a man who was smoking a cigar. More than that, the lady, sniffing, easily made out that the man had been eating onions. Still more than that, she had the strongest kind of suspicion that he had been drinking beer. The lady fussed and wriggled, and grew angrier, and looked at the man scornfully. Presently she could endure it no longer. She looked squarely at him and said:

“If you were my husband, sir, I’d give you a dose of poison!”

The man looked at her. “If I were your husband,” said he, “I’d take it!”

The popular story above was reprinted with minor alterations in multiple newspapers in the following days, months, and years. An early instance in the “New York Tribune” acknowledged “The Boston Transcript”.^[2] 1899 November 19, Colorado Springs Gazette, Tales of the Town, Quote Page 7, Column 1, Colorado Springs, Colorado. (GenealogyBank)^[3] 1899 November 19, New York Tribune, Section: Illustrated Supplement, Well Agreed, (Acknowledgement to The Boston Transcript), Quote Page 19, Column 3, New York, New York. (Old Fulton) Top researcher Barry Popik identified this primordial version of the repartee and located other valuable citations.^[4]Website: The Big Apple, Article title: “‘If you were my husband, I’d poison your coffee’ (Nancy Astor to Churchill?)”, Date on website: February 09, 2009, Website … Continue reading

This joke has been evolving for more than one hundred years. In March 1900 the humorist Marshall Pinckney Wilder asserted authorship of the gag. By April 1900 a version with a comical Irishman was circulating. In 1902 a theatrical production switched the roles of the husband and wife.

In 1949 an instance with Winston Churchill delivering the punchline to an unnamed woman was printed in “The New York Times”. The story with Nancy Astor and Winston Churchill was recounted in a 1952 book called “The Glitter and the Gold”. It is conceivable that Churchill employed this line, but he would have been knowingly or unknowingly re-enacting a joke that had been circulating for many years.

In 1962 the legendary comedian Groucho Marx presented the gag, but he credited the prominent playwright George Bernard Shaw with the punchline. The details for all these citations are given further below.

Here are additional selected citations in chronological order.

Continue reading “If I Were Your Wife I’d Put Poison in Your Tea!” “If I Were Your Husband I’d Drink It”

References

References
↑1	1899 November 18, Oswego Daily Times, Right and Left, (Untitled short item), Quote Page 2, Column 4, Oswego, New York. (Old Fulton)
↑2	1899 November 19, Colorado Springs Gazette, Tales of the Town, Quote Page 7, Column 1, Colorado Springs, Colorado. (GenealogyBank)
↑3	1899 November 19, New York Tribune, Section: Illustrated Supplement, Well Agreed, (Acknowledgement to The Boston Transcript), Quote Page 19, Column 3, New York, New York. (Old Fulton)
↑4	Website: The Big Apple, Article title: “‘If you were my husband, I’d poison your coffee’ (Nancy Astor to Churchill?)”, Date on website: February 09, 2009, Website description: Etymological dictionary with more than 10,000 entries. (Accessed barrypopik com on August 26, 2014)

We Women Do Talk Too Much, But Even Then We Don’t Tell Half We Know

Nancy Astor? Apocryphal?

Dear Quote Investigator: Recently, I saw the following comical remark attributed to the socialite and parliamentarian Lady Astor:

We women do talk too much but even then we don’t tell half we know.

Is this ascription accurate?

Quote Investigator: Nancy Astor was an important political pioneer as the first woman to take her seat as a Member of Parliament in the British House of Commons. In 1922 she spoke before American newspaper editors at the annual luncheon of the Associated Press held in New York. Boldface has been added to excerpts:^[1]1922 April 26, New York Times, In Politics to Help the Men, Lady Astor Tells the Editors, Start Page 1, Quote Page 3, New York. (The page image has “disagreeable” instead of … Continue reading

“We women feel we have moral courage and a sort of vision,” she added. “We don’t enter politics because of ourselves. To raise you men perfectly we’ve got to do a great many disagreeable things—to spank you when a spanking is needed and to love you when that is needed. Now we are ready to enter the political arena—don’t be frightened, and don’t try to discourage us too much. We women do talk too much, but even then we don’t tell half we know.”

Astor’s words were remembered, and a few months later a newspaper in New Orleans, Louisiana printed a filler item with two lines from her address:^[2] 1922 August 20, Times-Picayune, Section 2, Speech by Lady Astor, Quote Page 3, Column 8, New Orleans, Louisiana. (GenealogyBank)

Speech by Lady Astor

We women do talk too much, but even then we don’t tell half we know.

There’s so much good in all men; but only good women can bring it out.—Boston Transcript.

Here are additional selected citations in chronological order.

Continue reading We Women Do Talk Too Much, But Even Then We Don’t Tell Half We Know

References

References
↑1	1922 April 26, New York Times, In Politics to Help the Men, Lady Astor Tells the Editors, Start Page 1, Quote Page 3, New York. (The page image has “disagreeable” instead of “disagreeable”) (ProQuest)
↑2	1922 August 20, Times-Picayune, Section 2, Speech by Lady Astor, Quote Page 3, Column 8, New Orleans, Louisiana. (GenealogyBank)