Quote Origin: Everything in the Universe Has a Rhythm. Everything Dances

Maya Angelou? Celia Caroline Cole? Friedrich Nietzsche? George Martin? Michael Frisby? Anonymous?

Painting titled “Three Dancers in an Exercise Hall” by Edgar Degas circa 1880

Question for Quote Investigator: The Earth has natural rhythms such as the high and low tides of the ocean. The sky also has rhythms such as the oscillating electromagnetic radiation from a pulsar. Here is a saying on this theme:

Everything in the universe has a rhythm; everything dances.

These words have been attributed to the prominent U.S. writer Maya Angelou. I have been unable to find a citation. Would you please help me?

Reply from Quote Investigator: The notion that everything in the universe is dancing has a long history. For example, Friedrich Nietzsche applied this metaphor in his opus “Thus Spake Zarathustra: A Book for All and None” which was composed in the 1880s. Nietzsche’s character Zarathustra contemplated the universe in the following passage. Thomas Common performed the translation from German. Boldface added to excerpts by QI:1

That thou art to me a dancing-floor for divine chances, that thou art to me a table of the Gods, for divine dice and dice-players!

A strong match for the first statement of the inquiry occurred in 1922 in “The Delineator” journal of New York within an article by Celia Caroline Cole:2

Everything in the universe has rhythm: The rising and the setting of the sun, the ebb and flow of the sea, the coming of the stars, the seasons. They go out in order to come in—rhythmical, measured order.

Maya Angelou employed the phrase “everything in the universe has a rhythm” during an interview in 1973, and she stated that “everything dances” in 1974. Thus, Angelou used both statements, but QI has not yet found direct evidence that she employed them contiguously.

Below are additional selected citations in chronological order.

Continue reading “Quote Origin: Everything in the Universe Has a Rhythm. Everything Dances”

Quote Origin: It Is Better To Deserve Honors and Not Have Them Than To Have Them and Not Deserve Them

Mark Twain? Humphry Davy? Robert G. Ingersoll? Cato the Elder? Hugh M‘Neile? Cassius Marcellus Clay? Thomas Fuller?

Public domain illustration of “The Fidelity Medallion”

Question for Quote Investigator: A person of great merit may not receive any recognition while an unworthy person may receive numerous accolades. This perverse disconnection has inspired the following ethical stance:

It is better to deserve honors and not have them than to have them and not deserve them.

This notion has been attributed to famous U.S. humorist Mark Twain, prominent U.S. orator Robert G. Ingersoll, and noteworthy British chemist Humphry Davy. Would you please explore this topic?

Reply from Quote Investigator: The earliest match known to QI occurred in the writings of electrochemist Sir Humphry Davy who died in 1829. His brother John Davy published “Memoirs of the Life of Sir Humphry Davy” in 1836. This work contained excerpts from letters and notes penned by Humphry. Here were three items from him. Boldface added to excerpts by QI:1

“It is better to deserve honours and not to have them, than to have them and not deserve them.”

“Pride makes men entertaining only to themselves: vanity makes them entertaining to others.”

“Science, unlike literature, is independent of taste or caprice.”

Based on current evidence, Humphry Davy authored this quotation. Robert G. Ingersoll employed an instance during a speech on 1899, and Mark Twain wrote it in one of his notebooks in 1902 after it was already in circulation.

Below are additional selected citations in chronological order.

Continue reading “Quote Origin: It Is Better To Deserve Honors and Not Have Them Than To Have Them and Not Deserve Them”

Quote Origin: No One Chooses Evil Because It Is Evil; One Only Mistakes It for Happiness, The Good One Seeks

Mary Shelley? Mary Wollstonecraft? Wednesday Addams? Epictetus? George Stanhope? Gustav Friedrich Wiggers?

Eve selecting an apple from Jeff Jacobs at Pixabay

Question for Quote Investigator: Usually, a person does not perform an evil act simply because it is evil. Instead, the motivation is more complex. The person is pursuing their own deeply flawed vision of good. Often, the person is pursuing their own happiness or pleasure.

This notion has been attributed to English philosopher Mary Wollstonecraft who was a prominent advocate of women’s rights. It has also been attributed to English writer Mary Shelley who authored the famous novel “Frankenstein”. An instance of this saying occurred in the recent Netflix streaming series “Wednesday” which centers on the character Wednesday Addams. Would you please help me to find a citation which presents the precise phasing of this quotation.

Reply from Quote Investigator: In 1790 Mary Wollstonecraft published “A Vindication of the Rights of Men” which included the following passage. Boldface added to excerpts by QI:1

It may be confidently asserted that no man chooses evil, because it is evil; he only mistakes it for happiness, the good he seeks. And the desire of rectifying these mistakes, is the noble ambition of an enlightened understanding, the impulse of feelings that Philosophy invigorates.

Thus, Mary Wollstonecraft deserves credit for this quotation although the theme can be traced back to the ancient Greek philosopher Epictetus.

The attribution to Mary Shelley was probably caused by a naming confusion. Mary Shelley was the daughter of Mary Wollstonecraft and political philosopher William Godwin. Her birth name was Mary Wollstonecraft Godwin. She became Mary Shelley when she married poet Percy Bysshe Shelley.

Below are additional selected citations in chronological order.

Epictetus was a Greek Stoic philosopher who died circa 135 AD. Clergyman George Stanhope published in 1700 a translation of Epictetus containing the following germane passage:2

And indeed, all Evil whatsoever, is in some Sense an involuntary Misfortune to the Soul; for the Soul never chooses Evil, considered as Evil, but under the Disguise and Pretence of some Good; as sometimes Riches, sometimes Sensual Enjoyments, or Honours, or Preferments and Greatness.

In 1731 “The Gentleman’s Magazine” printed a thematic match:3

Man is a sensible being, naturally seeks his own happiness, nor can be divested of self-love. No man chooses evil as evil.

In 1790 Mary Wollstonecraft published “A Vindication of the Rights of Men” which included the quotation as mentioned previously:

It may be confidently asserted that no man chooses evil, because it is evil; he only mistakes it for happiness, the good he seeks.

In 1810 a book review published in “The Critical Review” of London contained a different version of this saying:4

When a man chooses evil, he does not choose it as evil. It is mistaken good. All vice, therefore, may be referred to ignorance; and hence we ought to be very mild and merciful in scrutinizing the conduct of our fellow creatures; and in censuring their deviations from the path of rectitude.

In 1834 an essay in “The Monthly Repository” of London contained another version of the saying:5

Protagoras, and all others who were present, assented, and it was agreed that doing evil always arose from ignorance, and doing well from knowledge.

Since, then, no one chooses evil, knowing it to be evil , but mistakingly supposing it to be good, no one, who is compelled to choose between two evils, will knowingly choose the greatest.

In 1840 a work by German theologian Gustav Friedrich Wiggers was translated by Ralph Emerson and published under the title “An Historical Presentation of Augustinism and Pelagianism”. The following appeared in the book:6

Thus the evil may be involuntary, as no one chooses evil merely as evil; but drawn away by the pleasure that surrounds it, supposing it good, he decides to embrace it.

The 1980 edition of “Bartlett’s Familiar Quotations” contained the following entry:7

[Mary Wollstonecraft Godwin]
1759–1797
No man chooses evil because it is evil; he only mistakes it for happiness, the good he seeks.
A Vindication of the Rights of Men [1790]

In 2009 the syndicated newspaper column “Aces On Bridge” employed the following epigraph with an ascription to Mary Shelley:8

“No man chooses evil because it is evil; he only mistakes it for happiness, the good he seeks.”
— Mary Shelley

In 2013 the quotation appeared in “Quotations for the Fast Lane” compiled by Richard W. Pound:9

No man chooses evil because it is evil; he only mistakes it for happiness, the good he seeks. Mary Shelley

In conclusion, Mary Wollstonecraft should receive credit for this quotation. The ancient Greek philosopher Epictetus made a similar point. The attribution to Mary Shelley is unsupported.

Image Notes: Illustration of Eve selecting an apple with a serpent nearby from jeffjacobs1990 at Pixabay. Image has been cropped and resized.

Acknowledgement: Great thanks to Ibon Basterrika whose inquiry led QI to formulate this question and perform this exploration. Basterrika knew that Mary Wollstonecraft deserved credit and not Mary Shelley.

Update History: On March 18, 2024 the format of the bibliographical notes was updated. Also, the full article was placed on this website.

  1. 1790, A Vindication of the Rights of Men, in a letter to the Right Honourable Edmund Burke by Mary Wollstonecraft, The Second Edition, Quote Page 136, Printed for J. Johnson, London. (Google Books Full View) link ↩︎
  2. 1700, Epictetus His Morals: With Simplicius His Comment by Epictetus, Translated from the Greek by George Stanhope, Second Edition, Chapter 13, Quote Page 115, Printed for Richard Sare, London. (Google Books Full View) link ↩︎
  3. 1731 July, The Gentleman’s Magazine, Weekly Essays in July 1731, Universal Spectator on Saturday, July 17, Quote Page 295, Printed by F. Jefferies, London. (Google Books Full View) link ↩︎
  4. 1810 September, The Critical Review: Or, Annals of Literature, Volume 21, Number 1, Book review of W. Burdon’s “Materials for Thinking”, Start Page 69, Quote Page 73, Printed for J. Mawman, London. (Google Books Full View) link ↩︎
  5. 1834 March, The Monthly Repository, Notes on Some of the More Popular Dialogues of Plato, №1: The Protagoras by A., Start Page 203, Quote Page 210, Charles Fox, London. (Google Books Full View) link ↩︎
  6. 1840, An Historical Presentation of Augustinism and Pelagianism from the Original Sources by G. F. Wiggers (Gustav Friedrich Wiggers), Translated from the German by Ralph Emerson, Chapter 22, Quote Page 333, Published by Gould, Newman & Saxton, Andover, Massachusetts. (Google Books Full View) link ↩︎
  7. 1980, Familiar Quotations by John Bartlett, Edited by Emily Morison Beck, Fifteenth and 125th Anniversary Edition, Entry: Mary Wollstonecraft, Quote Page 414, Column 1, Published by Little, Brown and Company, Boston, Massachusetts. (Verified with scans) ↩︎
  8. 2009 August 11, The Sacramento Bee, Aces On Bridge (Syndicated), Quote Page D2, Column 1, Sacramento, California. (Newspapers_com) ↩︎
  9. 2013, Quotations for the Fast Lane, Compiled by Richard W. Pound, Topic: Evil, Quote Page 174, McGill-Queen’s University Press, Montreal, Quebec, Canada. (Google Books Preview; Amazon Look Inside) ↩︎

Quote Origin: There Are Two Kinds of Teachers: The Kind That Fill You With So Much Quail Shot That You Can’t Move, and . . .

Robert Frost? Mark Twain? Margaret Pepperdene? Apocryphal?

Public domain illustration of two frogs by F. Strothman

Question for Quote Investigator: Prominent U.S. poet Robert Frost has received credit for a brilliantly vivid metaphor describing two types of teachers. One type fills students with so much quail shot they cannot move. The other type simply prods students a little, and they jump to the skies.

Is this figurative language really from the pen of Robert Frost? Would you please help me to find a citation with the correct phrasing?

Reply from Quote Investigator: There is substantive evidence that Robert Frost employed this metaphor which is based on an incident in an 1865 short story by Mark Twain titled “The Celebrated Jumping Frog of Calaveras County”.

Twain’s tale centers on Jim Smiley who catches a frog which he names Dan’l Webster. Smiley trains the frog to jump a long distance, and he brags that his frog can “outjump any frog in Calaveras county”. A stranger agrees to gamble on a jumping contest between Dan’l Webster and another frog. The stranger sabotages Dan’l Webster by surreptitiously feeding it quail shot so that it cannot jump. The stranger wins the bet and escapes before the deceit is uncovered.

Robert Frost was both a teacher and a poet. He once told his class to read “The Celebrated Jumping Frog of Calaveras County”. A 1963 article in the “Agnes Scott Newsletter” described the reaction of Frost’s students. Boldface added to excerpts by QI:1

“Mr. Frost said that when his class assembled the next day they were somewhat mystified; they didn’t understand what this story had to do with a course in education. ‘Well,’ he said, ‘I told them that this story was about teachers. There are two kinds of teachers: the kind that fill you with so much quail shot that you can’t move, and the kind that just give you a little prod behind and you jump to the skies.’”

This anecdote about Frost was reported by Margaret Pepperdene who was an Associate Professor of English at Agnes Scott College in Decatur, Georgia. She later became a Professor of English and director of the college’s Writers’ Festival.2 Pepperdene heard the tale from Frost when she discussed teaching with him at his home on the Noble Farm in Ripton, Vermont.

Frost died on January 29, 1963, and the anecdote appeared in an article titled “Memories of Robert Frost Abound at Agnes Scott” in the April 1963 issue of “Agnes Scott Newsletter”.

Below are three additional selected citations in chronological order.

Continue reading “Quote Origin: There Are Two Kinds of Teachers: The Kind That Fill You With So Much Quail Shot That You Can’t Move, and . . .”

Adage Provenance: Before You Leave the House, Look in the Mirror and Remove One Piece of Jewelry

Coco Chanel? Gracie Allen? Joan Rivers? The McGuire Sisters? Polly Bergen? Nancy Abraham? Maggie Daly? Helen Hennessy? John Robert Powers? Beatrice Molinsky? George Burns? Anonymous?

Picture of jewelry circa A.D. 250-400
Public domain picture of jewelry circa A.D. 250–400

Question for Quote Investigator: Fashion sense is always subjective, but many agree that wearing too much jewelry looks gaudy and ostentatious. The style maven Coco Chanel supposedly gave the following advice about adornments. Here are two versions

(1) Always remove one piece of jewelry before you go out.

(2) Before you leave the house, look at yourself in the mirror and take one thing off.

Thus, this difficult choice requires second-guessing yourself. This adage has also been attributed to two comedians: Gracie Allen and Joan Rivers. I have been unable to find solid evidence, and I am skeptical of these attributions. Would you please explore this saying’s provenance?

Reply from Quote Investigator: This saying is difficult to trace because it can be expressed in many ways. The earliest match known to QI appeared in “The American University Eagle” newspaper of Washington D.C. in 1949 which reprinted fashion advice from the “Daily Lass-o” of the Texas State College for Women. Boldface added to excerpts by QI:1

“Lastly, never wear too much jewelry, no matter how well it all matches. An old policy, but still a very good one, is after you have completely finished dressing, step away from the mirror and get a good full length view of yourself, then remove one piece of jewelry and you will look much smarter.”

The phrase “old policy” signaled that this advice was a preexisting adage. The originator remains anonymous. Several famous people have referenced this saying, but QI has found no substantive support for the ascription to Coco Chanel. Comedian George Burns stated that his wife, Gracie Allen, adhered to the adage. Also, Joan Rivers referred to the saying, but she attributed it to her mother.

Below are additional selected citations in chronological order.

Continue reading “Adage Provenance: Before You Leave the House, Look in the Mirror and Remove One Piece of Jewelry”

Quote Origin: When a Man Loves Cats, I Am His Friend and Comrade

Mark Twain? Robert H. Hirst? Susy Clemens? Apocryphal?

Question for Quote Investigator: Several books about cats contain a quotation credited to humorist Mark Twain stating that Twain was a friend and comrade to people who love cats. I am skeptical of this  attribution, and I haven’t seen a citation. Would you please explore this topic?

Reply from Quote Investigator: In 2009 Robert H. Hirst who is the general editor of the scholarly Mark Twain Project edited a book titled “Who is Mark Twain?” containing a collection of sketches and essays by Twain that were unpublished (or rarely published) previously.

A vignette dated September 1887 and titled “An Incident” described a meeting between Twain and a young man who was carrying a gun. Twain initially feared the youth was a “lunatic out gunning for men”. Next, he worried that a group of “four sorry-looking cats” were the target. But Twain learned that the youth was hoping to provide a meal for the cats. Boldface added to excerpts by QI:1

Aha!—so far from being a madman, he was saner, you see, than the average of our race; for he had a warm spot in him for cats. When a man loves cats, I am his friend and comrade, without further introduction.

Below are additional selected citations in chronological order.

Continue reading “Quote Origin: When a Man Loves Cats, I Am His Friend and Comrade”

Quote Origin: Never Argue With Stupid People. They Will Drag You Down To Their Level and Then Beat You With Experience

Mark Twain? George Carlin? Yul Brynner? Jean Cocteau? Bob Gray? Dilbert? Scott Adams? Anonymous?

Illustration of a jester's hat from OpenClipart-Vectors at Pixabay.
Illustration of a jester’s hat from OpenClipart-Vectors

Question for Quote Investigator: Logic and careful reasoning are the ingredients of a constructive argument. Acrimony and irrationality are the elements of a fruitless argument. The celebrated humorist Mark Twain supposedly formulated the following cautionary remark. Here are two versions:

(1) Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!

(2) Never argue with stupid people because they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

Comedian George Carlin has also received credit. I am skeptical of both of these attributions, and I have never seen solid citations. Would you please examine this saying?

Reply from Quote Investigator: QI has been unable to find substantive evidence crediting this remark to Mark Twain or George Carlin. It does not appear on the Twain Quotes website edited by Barbara Schmidt,1 nor does it appear in the large compilation “Mark Twain at Your Fingertips” edited by Caroline Thomas Harnsberger.2

Scholar Matt Seybold of Elmira College and the Center for Mark Twain Studies examined this saying and concluded that “Mark Twain never said these words, nor anything resembling them”.3 George Carlin received credit many years after the quip was circulating.

QI conjectures that the quotation evolved over time. The Bible contains a thematically related passage in Proverbs 26:4. Here is the text from the New International Version. Boldface added to excerpts by QI:4

Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be just like him.

In 1878 April “The Daily Picayune” of New Orleans, Louisiana printed an adage depicting the underlying idea without attribution:5

To argue with a fool is to make him your equal.

In May 1878 “The Rochester Evening Express” of Rochester, New York printed another precursor while acknowledging an Ohio source:6

Don’t argue with a fool, or the listener will say there is a pair of you.—Cincinnati Breakfast Table.

QI has a separate article about a family of sayings incorrectly linked to Mark Twain which is available here: Never Argue With a Fool, Onlookers May Not Be Able To Tell the Difference.

In 1956 an Associated Press columnist spoke with the popular actor Yul Brynner who attributed a partially matching statement to prominent French artist Jean Cocteau:7

Yul said the greatest advice he ever received in life was given by the French writer Jean Cocteau, who told him:

“Never associate with idiots on their own level, because, being an intelligent man, you’ll try to deal with them on their level—and on their level they’ll beat you every time.”

The above statement used the word “associate” instead of “argue”, but within a few years the remark evolved toward the modern expression. In 1958 a columnist in “The Daily Tar Heel” of Chapel Hill, North Carolina used the word “argue”. The columnist also omitted Brynner’s name and attributed the words directly to Cocteau:8

As Jean Cocteau once said, “Never argue with an idiot, because being an intelligent man, you will argue with them on their level, and, on their level, they’ll beat you every time.”

In 1978 “The Memphis Press-Scimitar” of Tennessee printed an instance with a different attribution:9

Never associate with idiots on their own level because, being an intelligent person, you will try to deal with them on their level, and on their level they will beat you every time. — Bob Gray, Northeast Memphis Optimes

The expression continued to circulate in 1987 when it appeared in “The Kaplan Herald” of Louisiana. The connection to Cocteau was also recalled:10

IT’S TRUE — Never associate with idiots on their own level because, being an intelligent man, you’ll try to deal with them on their level — and on their level they’ll beat you every time. -JEAN COCTEAU

In 1993 an instance using the phrase “win with experience” appeared in the Usenet newsgroup comp.sys.cbm. The ellipsis occurred in the original text. The word “never” or “don’t” was omitted. No attribution was specified:11

… Argue with idiots, they drag you to their level & win with experience.

In March 1997 an instance using the phrase “beat you with experience” appeared in a message posted to the Usenet newsgroup aus.computers.mac. No attribution was given:12

Never Argue with idiots,
They drag you down to their level,
And beat you with experience!

In April 1997 a message posted to newsgroup alt.games.vga-planets suggested that the guidance had been circulating for years. The words “it’s” and “received” were misspelled:13

For what its worth…. This is advice I recieved years ago and wish I had followed.
“Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience”

In 1998 a columnist in a Kansas City, Missouri newspaper shared the saying with readers. No attribution was specified:14

The following funnies are from e-mail that people have fielded from the Internet and shared with me . . .
Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

In January 1999 the quip appeared in the Usenet newsgroup aus.jokes, as the eighteenth item in a list titled “Dilbert’s Words of Wisdom”. Dilbert is a U.S. comic strip authored by Scott Adams. Earlier versions of the list from 1998 did not contain the quip. Several items in the list were misattributed:15

18. Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

In June 1999 an instance in the Usenet newsgroup alt.games.starcraft used the word “moron” instead of “idiot” or “fool”:16

“Never argue with a moron, they’ll drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience.”

On June 2, 2009 a tweet attributed a different expression containing the phrase “Never argue with an idiot” to Mark Twain:17

@Spud31 Mark Twain (I think) said “Never argue with an idiot. People might not know the difference.”

On June 23, 2009 a tweet credited Twain with a hybrid expression:18

“Never argue with an idiot. They will beat you with experience and people listening in may not be able to tell the difference.” — Mark Twain

In July 2011 the crowd sourced website Goodreads credited Twain with a full instance using the phrase “stupid people”. Twain died in 1910, and this evidence was not substantive:19

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”
― Mark Twain

In 2012 a letter published in a Whitehorse, Canada newspaper employed an instance with “idiot” and mentioned the Twain attribution with skepticism:20

. . . another quote credited to Mark Twain, but its origin is really unknown: “Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.”

In 2013 a message in Usenet Newsgroup comp.os.linux.advocacy implausibly credited George Carlin:21

Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
-George Carlin

Matt Seybold is an Associate Professor of American Literature & Mark Twain Studies at Elmira College. In 2020 he wrote a valuable article on this topic. Seybold located the crucial citations in 1956 and 1958 together with other important evidence. He also discussed the friendship of Brynner and Cocteau.22

In conclusion, a precursor idea appeared as a proverb in the bible. The expression has been evolving for many years. In 1956 Yul Brynner credited Jean Cocteau with a partially matching statement. A closer match appeared in 1958, and a strong match occurred in 1993. The dubious linkage to Twain occurred many decades after his death. The attribution to George Carlin was also spurious.

Image Notes: Illustration of a jester’s hat from OpenClipart-Vectors at Pixabay.

Acknowledgements: Great thanks to Marian T. Wirth, Brian Zachary Mayer, Thayne Davidson Muller, Robert McMillan, AnxiousPony, and Jane Bella whose inquiries led QI to formulate this question and perform this exploration. Also, thanks to Matt Seybold for his pioneering research.

Update History: On March 16, 2024 the format of the bibliographical notes was updated. Also, the full article was placed on this website.

  1. Website: TwainQuotes.com, Editor: Barbara Schmidt, (QI searched the website for quotations containing the phrase “with experience” or the phrase “drag you”. No pertinent match was discovered), Description: Mark Twain quotations, articles, and related resources. (Searched January 28, 2023) link ↩︎
  2. 1948, Mark Twain at Your Fingertips by Caroline Thomas Harnsberger, (QI searched for quotations containing the phrase “with experience” or the phrase “drag you”. No pertinent match was discovered), Cloud, Inc., Beechhurst Press, Inc., New York. (Verified with search) ↩︎
  3. Website: Center for Mark Twain Studies, Article title: The Apocryphal Twain: “Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience”, Article author: Matt Seybold, Date on website: August 7, 2020, Organization description: The Elmira College Center for Mark Twain Studies was founded on December 31, 1982. The Center supports Mark Twain scholarship. (Accessed marktwainstudies.com on January 28, 2023) link ↩︎
  4. Website: Bible Hub, Article title: Parallel Verses of Proverbs 26:4, Translation: New International Version, Website description: Online Bible Study Suite. Bible hub is a production of the Online Parallel Bible Project. (Accessed biblehub.com on January 21, 2023) link ↩︎
  5. 1878 April 28, The Daily Picayune, (Untitled short item), Quote Page 4, Column 1, New Orleans, Louisiana. (Newspapers_com)1878 April 28, The Daily Picayune, (Untitled short item), Quote Page 4, Column 1, New Orleans, Louisiana. (Newspapers_com) ↩︎
  6. 1878 May 20, The Rochester Evening Express, Happy Thoughts, Quote Page 4, Column 2, Rochester, New York. (Old Fulton) ↩︎
  7. 1956 November 13, The Daily Messenger, Bald, But Not Frustrated by Hal Boyle. Quote Page 8, Column 6, Canandaigua, New York. (Newspapers_com) ↩︎
  8. 1958 January 15, The Daily Tar Heel, A National Lottery: Is It A Revenue Source? by Frank Crowther, Quote Page 2, Column 7, Chapel Hill, North Carolina. (Newspapers_com) ↩︎
  9. 1978 September 12, The Memphis Press-Scimitar, Factors Serves Notice On Elvis Bootleggers by Bill E. Burk, Quote Page 5, Column 5, Memphis, Tennessee. (Newspapers_com) ↩︎
  10. 1987 July 22, The Kaplan Herald, Sauce Piquante, Start Page 1, Quote Page 13, Column 1, Kaplan, Louisiana. (Newspapers_com) ↩︎
  11. 1993 December 12, Usenet discussion message, Newsgroup: comp.sys.cbm, From: Ben Dewberry @f272.n633.z3.fidonet.org, Subject: Zipcode Problem Solved. (Google Groups Search; Accessed August 8, 2020) link ↩︎
  12. 1997 March 7, Usenet discussion message, Newsgroup: aus.computers.mac, From: Shane Delforce @mugca.cc.monash.edu.au, Subject: Commonwealth Bank. (Google Groups Search; Accessed August 8, 2020) link ↩︎
  13. 1997 April 9, Usenet discussion message, Newsgroup: alt.games.vga-planets, From: Ken B. Anderson @ANL.GOV, Subject: Re: IRC Chat: Lukeofb. . . .. (Google Groups Search; Accessed August 8, 2020) link ↩︎
  14. 1998 July 9, The Kansas City Star, Internet can provide PG-rated amusement by Lewis W. Diuguid, Section: Neighborhood News, Start Page 1, Quote Page 16, Column 5, Kansas City, Missouri. (Newspapers_com) ↩︎
  15. 1999 January 20, Usenet discussion message, Newsgroup: aus.jokes, From: Mr. Funny Bone International @LineOne.Net, Subject: Words of Wisdom from Dilbert. (Google Groups Search; Accessed January 29, 2023) link ↩︎
  16. 1999 June 6, Usenet discussion message, Newsgroup: alt.games.starcraft, From: Chaos-san @geocities.com, Subject: Re: clarification on newbies. (Google Groups Search; Accessed January 29, 2023) link ↩︎
  17. Tweet, From: David D, @geopsychic, Time: 2:27 PM, Date: Jun 2, 2009, Text: @Spud31 Mark Twain (I think) said … (Accessed on twitter.com on January 29, 2023) link ↩︎
  18. Tweet, From: mwalkercreative @mwalkercreative, Time: 12:16 PM, Date: Jun 23, 2009, Text: “Never argue with an idiot. They will beat you . . .” (Accessed on twitter.com on January 29, 2023) link ↩︎
  19. Website: Goodreads, Article title: Mark Twain > Quotes > Quotable Quote Timestamp on first ‘Like’: Jul 08, 2011 11:13AM, Website description: Goodreads is a large community for readers that provides book recommendations; the site is owned by Amazon. (Accessed goodreads.com on Jan 21, 2023) link ↩︎
  20. 2012 November 9, Whitehorse Daily Star, Section: Letters To the Editor, Letter title: Denying the facts is simply ignorant, Letter author: Kevin Sinclair of Whitehorse, Quote Page 18, Column 5, Whitehorse, Yukon, Canada. (Newspapers_com) ↩︎
  21. 2013 October 17, Usenet discussion message, Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy, From: Crabbit Bampot @gmail.com, Subject: Early adopters struggle with Windows 8.1 update. (Google Groups Search; Accessed January 29, 2023) link ↩︎
  22. Website: Center for Mark Twain Studies, Article title: The Apocryphal Twain: “Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience”, Article author: Matt Seybold, Date on website: August 7, 2020, Organization description: The Elmira College Center for Mark Twain Studies was founded on December 31, 1982. The Center supports Mark Twain scholarship. (Accessed marktwainstudies.com on January 28, 2023) link ↩︎

Quote Origin: I Do Not Know What I Think Until I Read What I’m Writing

Flannery O’Connor? Graham Wallas? E. M. Forster? Inger Stevens? August Heckscher? Paul Samuelson? Shirley MacLaine? Joan Didion? E. L. Doctorow? John Gregory Dunne? Edward Albee? Wendy Wasserstein? William Faulkner? Virginia Hamilton Adair? Stephen King?

Question for Quote Investigator: The process of writing helps to clarify thoughts and ideas. For example, some novelists do not outline their plots in advance; instead, they spontaneously construct story arcs while writing. Here are two versions of a pertinent comment:

(1) I write to find out what I think.
(2) I don’t know what I think until I read what I write.

This remark has a humorous edge because thoughts are usually formulated before they are written down. This notion has been attributed to prominent short story writer and novelist Flannery O’Connor and to horror master Stephen King. Would you please explore this topic?

Reply from Quote Investigator: In 1948 Flannery O’Connor wrote a letter to her literary agent, and she included an instance of the saying. Boldface added to excerpts by QI:1

What you say about the novel, Rinehart, advances, etc. sounds very good to me, but I must tell you how I work. I don’t have my novel outlined and I have to write to discover what I am doing. Like the old lady, I don’t know so well what I think until I see what I say; then I have to say it over again.

O’Connor’s mention of an “old lady” indicated that she was referencing an earlier cluster of similar remarks. Here are two of the earliest instances:

1926: How can I know what I think till I see what I say? (Attributed to unnamed little girl by educator Graham Wallas)2

1927: How can I tell what I think till I see what I say? (Attributed to an unnamed old lady by novelist E. M. Forster)3

The two quotations above were about speaking instead of writing. A separate QI article about the family of sayings centered on oral expression is available here: How Can I Know What I Think Till I See What I Say?

This article will center on sayings about written expression. Below is an overview of this family of remarks.

1948 Jul 21: I don’t have my novel outlined and I have to write to discover what I am doing. Like the old lady, I don’t know so well what I think until I see what I say; then I have to say it over again. (Writer Flannery O’Connor)

1959 May 7: I have been writing down my thoughts about things—not for publication, but to find out what I’m thinking about. (Actress Inger Stevens)

1963: I did not really know what I thought until I read what I had written the next day. (Attributed to Journalist August Heckscher)

1969 Jan: How do I know what I really think until I read what my pen is writing? (Economist Paul Samuelson)

1976 Nov 18: Half the time I write to find out what I mean. (Actress and Author Shirley MacLaine)

1976 Dec 5: I write entirely to find out what I’m thinking. (Writer Joan Didion)

1981 Mar 31: You write to find out what it is that you’re writing. (Novelist E. L. Doctorow)

1982 May 3: I think you write to find out what you think. (Screenwriter John Gregory Dunne)

1983 Jun: I write the plays down to find out what I’m thinking about. (Playwright Edward Albee)

1985 Mar 17: I often write to find out what I’m thinking. (Playwright Wendy Wasserstein)

1989: I don’t know what I think until I read what I said. (Attributed to William Faulkner by Warren Bennis)

1994: I never know what I think about something until I read what I’ve written on it. (Attributed to William Faulkner by Tom Morris)

1995: I never know what I think until I read it in one of my poems. (Poet Virginia Hamilton Adair)

2005: I write to find out what I think. (Horror writer Stephen King)

Below are detailed citations in chronological order.

In 1949 “The Dictionary of Humorous Quotations” included an entry for a thematically related remark. QI has not yet found any substantive support for the listed attribution:4

WALPOLE, Horace, 1717–1797, English author, letter writer, and antiquarian.
I never understand anything until I have written about it.

In 1959 the Associated Press published a piece about actress Inger Stevens during which she employed a version of the saying:5

“But work isn’t everything. I want to take some courses at UCLA if I stay here. I do some painting, and I model with clay. Also, I have been writing down my thoughts about things — not for publication, but to find out what I’m thinking about.”

In 1963 the book “Celebrity Register: An Irreverent Compendium of American Quotable Notables” included an entry about journalist August Heckscher who employed the saying:6

He has been chief editorial writer for the New York Herald Tribune (leaving because “I got to the point where I did not really know what I thought until I read what I had written the next day”).

In January 1969 Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Samuelson published a column in “Newsweek” magazine forecasting business and financial trends for the coming year. Samuelson discussed his motivation for making predictions:7

Most important is the masochistic desire to make oneself climb out on a limb. How do I know what I really think until I read what my pen is writing?

In November 1976 the UPI news service published a piece about actress and memoirist Shirley MacLaine. She discussed her motivation for writing:8

“Writing a book is easier than not writing it, if you know what I mean,” she said. “Half the time I write to find out what I mean.”

In December 1976 author Joan Didion published an article in “The New York Times Book Review” titled “Why I Write” containing the following passage:9

Had I been blessed with even limited access to my own mind there would have been no reason to write. I write entirely to find out what I’m thinking, what I’m looking at, what I see and what it means. What I want and what I fear.

In 1981 “The Baltimore Sun” of Maryland printed an article about novelist E. L. Doctorow who employed a variant expression:10

In fact, Mr. Doctorow has begun a new novel, but he tersely declines to discuss it.

“I can’t tell you about it because I don’t know how. You write to find out what it is that you’re writing.”

In May 1982 journalist and screenwriter John Gregory Dunne used an instance while disclaiming credit:11

“I think you write to find out what you think,” says Mr. Dunne, “though that’s hardly an original thought. Writers basically work by instinct — I think you have only an inchoate sense of what you’re doing.

In September 1982 author Francine du Plessix Gray published in “The New York Times Book Review” an essay titled “I Write for Revenge Against Reality”. Gray credited Flannery O’Connor with a different phrasing of the saying:12

Question: Why do I go on writing, seeing the continuing anguish of the act, the dissatisfaction I feel toward most results?

Flannery O’Connor said it best: “I write because I don’t know what I think until I read what I say.”

In 1983 the periodical “Dramatics” printed a piece about playwright Edward Albee which included his answers to questions posed by high school students:13

“I’m not one of these playwrights who says now I must write a play about this or that, and then figures out a plot and characters for the play. The whole thing emerges in my consciousness, and I may keep it in mind for up to ten years before I write it down. To oversimplify, it could be said that I write the plays down to find out what I’m thinking about.”

In 1985 Associated Press printed an article about playwright Wendy Wasserstein which discussed her play “Isn’t It Romantic”:14

It’s a comedy that was born in anxiety. “I often write to find out what I’m thinking,” Ms. Wasserstein says. “Isn’t It Romantic” happened at a time when a girlfriend of mine got married. I was upset and couldn’t understand why.

In 1989 Professor of Business Administration Warren Bennis published the book “On Becoming a Leader”. He attributed the saying to the famous author William Faulkner who had died many years earlier in 1962:15

Faulkner said, ‘I don’t know what I think until I read what I said.’ That’s not just a joke. You learn what you think by codifying your thinking in some way.

In 1994 “True Success: A New Philosophy of Excellence” by Tom Morris also attributed the saying to Faulkner, but the phrasing was different:16

William Faulkner once said, “I never know what I think about something until I read what I’ve written on it.” Well, I’ve read Faulkner and often still don’t have a clue what he thought.

In 1995 “The New Yorker” magazine published an article about the poet Virginia Hamilton Adair who employed a version of the saying:17

“I’ve always written poems,” Virginia told me. “I never stopped. I never know what I think until I read it in one of my poems.”

In 2005 the well-known horror scribe typed a compact instance:18

I write to find out what I think, and what I found out writing The Colorado Kid was that maybe — I just say maybe — it’s the beauty of the mystery that allows us to live sane as we pilot our fragile bodies through this demolition-derby world.

In conclusion, there are two closely related families of sayings:
(1) I will know what I think when I hear what I said.
(2) I will know what I think when I read what I wrote

The first family was discussed in an article which is available here. This article has focused on the second family. Flannery O’Connor stated in 1948 that she had to “write to discover what I am doing”. She also credited an anonymous “old lady” with the following viewpoint: “I don’t know so well what I think until I see what I say”. The citations above indicate that the family of remarks about writing has been popular with novelists, playwrights, screenwriters, poets, and others.

Image Notes: Public domain illustration of a writing hand from “The Book of Knowledge” (1912) edited by Arthur Mee and Holland Thompson.

Acknowledgement: Great thanks to Arnold Zwicky and Mark Mandel whose remarks and inquiry led QI to formulate this question and perform this exploration.

  1. 1979, The Habit of Being: Letters of Flannery O’Connor, Edited by Sally Fitzgerald, Part I: Up North and Getting Home 1948-1952, Letter to: Literary agent Elizabeth McKee, Letter date: July 21, 1948, Start Page 5, Quote Page 5, Farrar, Straus, Giroux, New York. (Verified with scans) ↩︎
  2. 1926 Copyright, The Art of Thought by Graham Wallas (Professor Emeritus of Political Science at the University of London), Chapter 4: Stages of Control, Quote Page 106, Harcourt, Brace and Company, New York. (Verified with scans) ↩︎
  3. 1927 Copyright, Aspects Of The Novel by E. M. Forster, Chapter 5: The Plot, Quote Page 152, Harcourt, Brace and Company, New York. (Verified with scans) ↩︎
  4. 1949 Copyright, The Dictionary of Humorous Quotations, Edited by Evan Esar, Section: Horace Walpole, Quote Page 210, Bramhall House, New York. (Verified with scans) ↩︎
  5. 1959 May 7, The Austin Statesman, Bob Thomas (Associated Press), Quote Page A20, Column 2, Austin, Texas. (ProQuest) ↩︎
  6. 1963, Celebrity Register: An Irreverent Compendium of American Quotable Notables, Edited by Cleveland Amory with Earl Blackwell, Profile of August Heckscher, Quote Page 282, Harper & Row, New York. (Verified with hardcopy) ↩︎
  7. 1973, The Samuelson Sampler by Paul Samuelson (Paul Anthony Samuelson), Chapter 10: A Look Back, A Look Ahead, A Look Around, Essay: The New Year, Date: January 1969, Start Page 167, Quote Page 168, Thomas Horton and Company, Glen Ridge, New Jersey. (Verified with scans) ↩︎
  8. 1976 November 18, The Daily Dispatch, Shirley MacLaine remains a free spirit by Vernon Scott (UPI), Quote Page 53, Column 6, Moline, Illinois. (Newspapers_com) ↩︎
  9. 1976 December 5, The New York Times, Section: The New York Times Book Review, Why I Write by Joan Didion, Start Page 2, Quote Page 2, Column 4, New York. (ProQuest) ↩︎
  10. 1981 March 31, The Baltimore Sun, ‘Ragtime’ to riches: Non-writing is Doctorow’s neurosis by Randi Henderson (Sun Staff Correspondent), Start Page B1, Quote Page B4, Column 2, Baltimore, Maryland. (ProQuest) ↩︎
  11. 1982 May 3, New York Times, How John Gregory Dunne Puts Himself Into His Books by Michiko Kakutani, Quote Page C11, Column 5, New York. (ProQuest) ↩︎
  12. 1982 September 12, New York Times, Section: The New York Times Book Review, I Write for Revenge Against Reality by Francine du Plessix Gray, Start Page BR3, Quote Page BR46, Column 4, New York. (Newspapers_com) ↩︎
  13. 1983 June, Dramatics, Volume 54, Issue 10, Albee on the road by Marty Curtis, Start Page 3, Quote Page 19, Column 1, The Educational Theatre Association, Cincinnati, Ohio. (ProQuest) ↩︎
  14. 1985 March 17, The Journal-News, Wendy Wasserstein — A playwright’s progress by Michael Kuchwara (AP Drama Writer), Quote Page F8, Column 1, Nyack, New York. (ProQuest) ↩︎
  15. 1989, On Becoming a Leader by Warren Bennis, Chapter 2: Understanding the Basics, Quote Page 48, Addison-Wesley Publishing Company, Reading, Massachusetts. (Verified with scans; Internet Archive) ↩︎
  16. 1994, True Success: A New Philosophy of Excellence by Tom Morris PhD, Chapter 1: A Conception of What We Want, Quote Page 41, A Grosset/Putnam Book: G.P. Putnam’s Sons, New York. (Verified with scans) ↩︎
  17. 1995 December 25 , The New Yorker, Dancing in the Dark by Alice Quinn, Start Page 132, Quote Page 135, Column 1, Publisher Condé Nast, New York. (Online New Yorker archive of digital scans) ↩︎
  18. 2005, The Colorado Kid by Stephen King, Section: Afterword, Date: January 31, 2005, Quote Page 184, Hard Case Crime: Dorchester Publishing Company, New York. (Verified with scans) ↩︎

Quote Origin: Never Explain. Your Friends Don’t Require It, and Your Enemies Won’t Believe You, Anyway

Elbert Hubbard? Victor Grayson? P. G. Wodehouse? Benjamin Jowett? E. A. Isaacs? Apocryphal?

Question for Quote Investigator: Explaining one’s beliefs and motivations is typically worthwhile, but sometimes it seems to be futile. Here are two versions of a germane remark:

(1) Never explain. Your friends don’t require it, and your enemies won’t believe you, anyway.

(2) Never explain—your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe you.

U.S. aphorist Elbert Hubbard and British politician Victor Grayson have each received credit for this type of remark. Would you please help me to find a citation?

Reply from Quote Investigator: The earliest match located by QI appeared as an epigraph on the cover of the February 1904 issue of “The Philistine: A Periodical of Protest” edited by Elbert Hubbard. Boldface added to excepts by QI:1

Never explain: your friends don’t require it, and your enemies won’t believe you, anyway.

QI believes that Elbert Hubbard deserves credit for this quotation; however, it was not constructed ex nihilo. The previous year Hubbard was sufficiently impressed by another related expression attributed to a prominent scholar that he placed it on the cover of the March 1903 issue of “The Philistine: A Periodical of Protest”:2

Never explain, never retract, never apologize—get the thing done and let them howl!
—Rev. Dr. Benjamin Jowett

A separate QI article about the saying immediately above is available here.

Below are additional selected citations in chronological order.

Continue reading “Quote Origin: Never Explain. Your Friends Don’t Require It, and Your Enemies Won’t Believe You, Anyway”

Quote Origin: Never Retract. Never Explain. Get It Done and Let Them Howl

Benjamin Jowett? Nellie McClung? Elbert Hubbard? Lionel Arthur Tollemache? James Kay-Shuttleworth? Ralph Lingen? George Otto Trevelyan? Wilbur F. Storey? Frederic William Farrar? Benjamin Disraeli? John Arbuthnot Fisher? Anonymous?

Question for Quote Investigator: Accomplishing a difficult task when facing strong opposition takes a forceful personality. Here are three pertinent guidelines for persevering:

(1) Never retract. Never explain. Get it done and let them howl.
(2) Don’t explain, don’t argue, get the thing done and let them howl.
(3) Never explain, never apologize. Get the thing done and let them howl.

The first statement has been attributed to scholar Benjamin Jowett who was a Master of Balliol College, Oxford. The second has been ascribed to U.S. essayist and aphorist Elbert Hubbard. The third has been credited to activist Nellie McClung who successfully campaigned for women’s suffrage in Canada. Are any of this linkages accurate? Would you please explore this topic?

Reply from Quote Investigator: The earliest full match located by QI appeared in 1895 within an article in “The Journal of Education” of London by the English writer Lionel Arthur Tollemache. The piece presented Tollemache’s memories of Benjamin Jowett who had died a couple years earlier at age 76. Boldface added to excerpts by QI:1

On another occasion he said to me: “A friend of mine of great practical ability told me that he has laid down for himself three rules of conduct. Never retract. Never explain. Get it done and let them howl.” Jowett repeated these paradoxical maxims with a characteristic laugh, which seemed at any rate not to mark disapproval.

Jowett helped to popularize the remark, but he disclaimed credit for it. Hence, the name of the creator remains uncertain. QI believes the remark evolved over time, and it was assembled from preexisting fragments. Elbert Hubbard mentioned the saying, but he credited Jowett. Nellie McClung employed the third statement during a speech in 1924, but the saying was already in circulation.

Below are additional selected citations in chronological order.

Continue reading “Quote Origin: Never Retract. Never Explain. Get It Done and Let Them Howl”