Quote Investigator® – Page 175

Quote Origin: Before You Diagnose Yourself with Depression or Low Self-Esteem…

Sigmund Freud? William Gibson? @debihope? Anonymous?

Question for Quote Investigator: There is a saying about maintaining emotional health that is both heartfelt and sardonic. The words have been attributed to the famous psychoanalyst Sigmund Freud and the award-winning science fiction author William Gibson. Here are two versions:

Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes.

Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounding yourself with assholes.

I think that the ascription to Freud is unlikely. Would you please examine this topic?

Reply from Quote Investigator: QI believes that this saying was crafted relatively recently, and it first appeared online. Because electronic text is malleable, and attached dates are sometimes inaccurate the task of tracing recent expressions is difficult. In this case, the database of tweets seems to provide solid information.

The earliest evidence located by QI was the following tweet from 2010:¹

Twitter Handle: Notorious d.e.b. @debihope
Timestamp: 12:23 PM – 24 Jan 2010

Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self esteem, first make sure you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes.

When QI communicated with @debihope she indicated that she was the originator of the expression, and she provided the following insight to its formulation:²

Popped right out of my own head and based on a past boyfriend.

Here are additional selected citations in semi-chronological order.

Quote Origin: If You Can Read This, You’ve Come Too Close

Dorothy Parker? Lillian Hellman? Ford Model T Label? Frank Sullivan? Apocryphal? Anonymous?

Question for Quote Investigator: The witty author Dorothy Parker was once asked to suggest an epitaph for her tombstone. Over the years she crafted several different candidates, and I am interested in the following saying which can be expressed in multiple ways:

If you can read this you are too close.
If you can read this you’ve come too close.
If you can read this, you are standing too close.

Would you please explore the provenance of this statement?

Reply from Quote Investigator: QI has examined six different epitaphs that have been attributed to Dorothy Parker. Here is a link to the webpage with pointers to the separate analyses.

There is evidence that Dorothy Parker did present this saying as an epitaph for herself. This information emanated from Lillian Hellman who was a long-time friend of the writer, and who acted as her controversial literary executor. Hellman delivered a memorial speech after Parker’s death during which she asserted that Parker desired a gravestone with the following message:

If you can read this you’ve come too close.

Hellman’s remark about Parker was discussed in her memoir. It also appeared in publications in 1968 and 1969. Detailed citations are given further below.

The origin of the phrase chosen by Parker was intriguing. The statement was used as a comical cautionary sign appearing on the back of Ford Model T automobiles during the 1920s. Parker humorously repurposed the expression and shifted its semantics. She performed the same alchemy on the statement “Excuse My Dust” as discussed here.

In January 1925 a newspaper in Portland, Oregon reported on a sign that had been seen in Pennsylvania. Boldface has been added to excerpts:¹

A Novel Warning.

A driver of a motor car In Washington, Pa., while trailing a small coupe, noticed very small letters on the spare tire covering. Anxious to know what was being advertised, he drove close enough to read the inscription, which said: “If you can read this you are too darn close.”

Here are additional selected citations in chronological order.

Quote Origin: The Dictionary Is the Only Place Where Success Comes Before Work

Vince Lombardi? Mark Twain? Arthur Brisbane? Vidal Sassoon? Stubby Currence? Anonymous?

Question for Quote Investigator: There is an astute saying about gaining achievements through effort that deftly refers to the alphabetical order of a dictionary. Here are two versions:

1) Success comes before work only in the dictionary.
2) The dictionary is the only place where success comes before work.

This expression has been attributed to football coach Vince Lombardi, humorist Mark Twain, newspaper editor Arthur Brisbane, hair stylist Vidal Sassoon, and others. Would you please explore its origin?

Reply from Quote Investigator: QI has found no substantive evidence that Mark Twain made this statement. It is not listed on Barbara Schmidt’s TwainQuotes.com website, an important reference tool for checking expressions ascribed to the luminary. Also, it does not appear in the large compilation “Mark Twain at Your Fingertips”.

The earliest strong match for this saying known to QI appeared as a filler item in the “Oklahoma City Star” newspaper in 1934. Boldface added to excerpts by QI:¹

PERTINENT POINTER
“The only place where SUCCESS comes before WORK is in the dictionary.”—Clipped.

The acknowledgement “clipped” probably meant that the quip was clipped from another periodical; hence, the ascription remains anonymous. QI believes that the expression evolved over time from related jokes, and details are presented below.

Here are additional selected citations in chronological order.

Quote Origin: Don’t Like to Write, But Like Having Written

Dorothy Parker? George R. R. Martin? Frank Norris? Robert Louis Stevenson? Cornelia Otis Skinner? Clive Barnes? Jack Klugman? Gloria Steinem? Hedley Donovan?

Question for Quote Investigator: Writing is an arduous task for many skilled authors. There is a popular family of sayings that contrasts the elation of accomplishment with the struggle of composition:

1) I hate to write, but I love having written.
2) I loathe writing, but I love having written.
3) Don’t like to write, but like having written.
4) I don’t enjoy writing. I enjoy having written.
5) Writers don’t like writing — they like having written.

Fantasy and science fiction author George R. R. Martin whose books are the basis for the celebrated “Game of Thrones” television series apparently employed this saying. Famous wit Dorothy Parker is also sometimes credited with the remark? Would you please explore its provenance?

Reply from Quote Investigator: George R. R. Martin did use an instance of this expression during a 2011 interview, and the details are given further below.

Dorothy Parker died in 1967, and the earliest attribution to her appeared in 1972. Thus, the evidence linking her to the quip is weak. See details further below.

The earliest evidence located by QI appeared in a Minnesota journal named “The Bellman” which acknowledged another periodical called “Detroit Saturday Night”. The novelist Frank Norris has been recognized for his works “The Octopus: A Story of California” and “The Pit: A Story of Chicago”. In 1915, a decade after his death, a letter written by him was discovered and published. Norris described his work habits as a writer, and the following excerpt contained an instance of the saying under investigation:¹

I write with great difficulty, but have managed somehow to accomplish 40 short stories (all published in fugitive fashion) and five novels within the last three years, and a lot of special unsigned articles. Believe my forte is the novel. Don’t like to write, but like having written. Hate the effort of driving pen from line to line, work only three hours a day, but work every day.

Believe in blunt, crude Anglo-Saxon words. Sometimes spend half an hour trying to get just the right combination of one-half dozen words. Never rewrite stuff; do all hard work at first writing, only revise—very lightly—in typewritten copy.

These words of Norris were widely disseminated by multiple news outlets in 1915 and 1916, e.g., “The Racine Journal News” of Wisconsin,² “The Charleroi Mail” of Pennsylvania,³ and “The Chicago Tribune” of Illinois.⁴

Here are additional selected citations in chronological order.

Quote Origin: When a Subject Becomes Totally Obsolete We Make It a Required Course

Peter Drucker? Apocryphal?

Question for Quote Investigator: While perusing a book of quotations categorized as outrageous I saw a remark about college education attributed to the famous business guru Peter Drucker:

When a subject becomes totally obsolete we make it a required course.

I haven’t been able to determine where or when this statement appeared. Is this ascription accurate?

Reply from Quote Investigator: In 1969 Peter Drucker published “The Age of Discontinuity: Guidelines to Our Changing Society”. Drucker argued that successful organizations must be capable of change and innovation:¹

An organization, whatever its objectives, must therefore be able to get rid of yesterday’s tasks and thus to free its energies and resources for new and more productive tasks.

Drucker indicated that effective ideas for positive change were often readily available, and yet the resistance to alterations within an organization was often very strong. Drucker employed a version of the saying under investigation when discussing the educational domain. Boldface has been added to excerpts:²

Rather it is organizational inertia which always pushes for continuing what we are already doing. At least we know—or we think we know—what we are doing. Organization is always in danger of being overwhelmed by yesterday’s tasks and being rendered sterile by them.

If a subject has become obsolete, the university faculty makes a required course out of it—and this “solves the problem” for the time being.

In 1976 “Drucker: The Man Who Invented the Corporate Society” by John J. Tarrant was released, and it included a ten-page appendix filled with remarks by Peter Drucker. The Fall 1976 issue of “The Wharton Magazine”³ from the University of Pennsylvania reprinted seventeen sayings from the appendix. Here are four examples; the third exactly matches the expression given by the questioner:⁴

We know nothing about motivation. All we can do is write books about it.

So much of what we call management consists in making it difficult for people to work.

When a subject becomes totally obsolete we make it a required course.

The schoolmaster since time immemorial has believed that the ass is an organ of learning. The longer you sit, the more you learn.

In 1992 Drucker crafted another phrasing for his idea. The details are given further below.

Here are additional selected citations in chronological order.

Quote Origin: Humor Can Be Dissected, as a Frog Can, But the Thing Dies in the Process

Mark Twain? E. B. White? Katharine S. White? André Maurois? Marty Feldman?

Question for Quote Investigator: A cogent simile about the cerebral examination of humor has been attributed to three clever individuals: humorist Mark Twain, children’s author E. B. White, and French author André Maurois. Here are four versions:

Analyzing humor is a bit like dissecting a frog: You learn how it works but you end up with a dead frog.

Studying humor is like dissecting a frog. You might learn a lot about it, but you wind up with a dead frog.

Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but the thing dies in the process.

Explaining a joke is like dissecting a frog. You understand it better but the frog dies in the process.

Would you please explore this saying and determine who should receive credit?

Reply from Quote Investigator: QI has found no substantive evidence that Mark Twain employed this amphibian simile. Citations show that both E. B. White and André Maurois did use this striking analogy, but the data indicated that E. B. White together with his wife Katharine S. White were the likely originators:

In October 1941 the Whites published an essay in “The Saturday Review of Literature”¹ that included the figurative language. The same text was also used in the preface of an influential 1941 collection titled “A Subtreasury of American Humor”² edited by the Whites. Boldface has been added to excerpts:³

Analysts have had their go at humor, and I have read some of this interpretative literature, but without being greatly instructed. Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but the thing dies in the process and the innards are discouraging to any but the purely scientific mind.

Here are additional selected citations in chronological order.

Quote Origin: Gentlemen, You May Include Me Out

Samuel Goldwyn? Herbert Fields? June Provines? Sheilah Graham? Alva Johnston? Apocryphal?

Question for Quote Investigator: Movie mogul Samuel Goldwyn was famous for his creative and idiosyncratic use of the English language. Hollywood legend asserts that Goldwyn participated in a complex, protracted, and tense corporate negotiation in the 1930s. But he was unhappy with the final deal, and he expressed disenchantment with these classic words:

Gentlemen, you may include me out.

Would you please explore this statement?

Reply from Quote Investigator: When Samuel Goldwyn was profiled in LIFE magazine in 1959 he adamantly denied that he used the expression: “Include me out”. Instead, Goldwyn contended that he uttered the prosaic “Gentlemen, I’m withdrawing from the association.” Yet, the colorful remark has been ascribed to him since the 1930s.

The earliest evidence located by QI did not link the phrase to Goldwyn. The words appeared in a newspaper serialization of a 1933 movie titled “Let’s Fall In Love”. Herbert Fields crafted the story and the screenplay of the romantic musical though it was not clear who penned the serialization which was published in February 1934.¹

In the following passage, two characters on a movie set were conversing: Rose Forsell was a temperamental star, and Max was a film producer. Forsell believed that she had been insulted, and she was threatening to return to Sweden while Max was attempting to mollify her. The word “Sweden” was spelled “Sveden” to depict Forsell’s accent. Boldface has been added to excerpts:²

Forsell was in a towering rage “Ah! So now he insults me! So now I go back home—to Sveden!”

Max walked up to her. “Wait a minute, Forsell. Don’t mind what Ken says. I didn’t say it. Include me out of it.”

Forsell ignored Max. “And what’s more, I take the first boat back and I don’t never come back.” She turned on her heel and started away.

By 1935 the phrase had moved from the realm of fiction to non-fiction. A popular “Chicago Tribune” columnist named June Provines recounted an incident with unnamed participants immersed in a business parley. The specified location was the “Hotel Sherman” which was probably a reference to the landmark Sherman House Hotel of Chicago:³

It was a small business meeting at the Hotel Sherman. The men had met to sign an agreement, according to Henrietta Singer, who reports the incident. The proposition was written and read to them and all of them agreed except one. He walked away, ostensibly thinking it over. The rest looked at him inquiringly, awaiting his answer. After a long pause he gave it, “Include me out,” he said.

Here are additional selected citations in chronological order.

Quote Origin: This Is On Me

Dorothy Parker? William P. Rothwell? Soaker? Apocryphal? Anonymous?

Question for Quote Investigator: The notable wit Dorothy Parker was also known as an imbiber. She would sometimes generously buy a round of drinks for her companions using the phrase:

This is on me.

Once when asked to create an epitaph for her tombstone she selected the expression above because of its dual meanings. One interpretation would remind her friends of convivial occasions. The other interpretation would prosaically specify that the stone stood above her mortal remains. Did Parker really choose this inscription, and is it on her tombstone?

Reply from Quote Investigator: QI has examined six different epitaphs that have been attributed to Dorothy Parker. Here is a link to a webpage with pointers to the separate analyses.

Dorothy Parker died in 1967, and books published in 1968 and 1970 asserted that Parker mentioned this expression as a possible humorous epitaph. Detailed citations are given further below. Nevertheless, the words did not appear on the marker above her ashes.

This joke has a long history and instances have been circulating for more than one hundred years. For example, in July 1896 the humor magazine “Life” printed a comical dialog about a grave marker. The term “soaker” referred to a heavy drinker. Boldface has been added to excerpts:¹

BRIGGS. That was rather an appropriate inscription they put on Soaker’s tombstone.
GRIGGS: What was it?
“‘This is on me.'”

Dorothy Parker was born in 1893; therefore, barring preternatural precocity, she did not craft this quip though she may have employed it.

Here are additional selected citations in chronological order.

Quote Origin: Things Turn Out Best for Folks Who Make the Best of the Way Things Turn Out

Titus Livius? John Wooden? Art Linkletter? Anonymous?

Question for Quote Investigator: Everyone experiences some adversity, and that may help to explain the popularity of the following adage:

Things turn out best for the people who make the best out of the way things turn out.

These words have been attributed to at least three people: Roman historian Titus Livius, basketball coach John Wooden, and television personality Art Linkletter. Who do you think should receive credit?

Reply from Quote Investigator: In March 1961 an instance of this aphorism was published in the humor column of two community newspapers in Illinois.¹ A person named “PF Pete” had collected the expression from an unnamed “Ad Boy”:²

Ad Boy:
Things turn out for the best for those who make the best out of the way things turn out.
PF Pete

The statement was constructed using a rhetorical technique called antimetabole. Successive phrases were repeated, but some key words were permuted. In this case, the words: “things”, “turn”, “out”, and “best” were repeated and reordered:

Part 1: Things turn out for the best for those who
Part 2: make the best out of the way things turn out.

In May 1961 the saying was printed in an advertisement for a bank published in a Brookshire, Texas newspaper. The words were ascribed to “Uncle Joe”:³

“Things turn out for the best,” Uncle Joe remarked, “for those who make the best out of the way things turn out.”

In the following years, close variants of the adage were published in numerous newspapers. The ascription was omitted or employed non-specific identifiers such as “Ad Boy” or “Uncle Joe”. No individual was credited, and QI believes the statement should be labeled anonymous.

In 1973 prominent UCLA basketball coach John Wooden included the aphorism in a book he co-authored. Wooden did not claim coinage, nor did he provide an ascription. In 1979 entertainer Art Linkletter included the remark in a book he published and credited Wooden. Precise citations for Wooden and Linkletter are given further below. QI has found no substantive support for crediting the dictum to Titus Livius; that linkage appeared relatively recently.

Thanks to top researcher Barry Popik who also examined this topic.

Here are additional selected citations in chronological order.

Quote Origin: The Dirtiest Book in All the World Is the Expurgated Book

Walt Whitman? Horace Traubel? Morris L. Ernst? Apocryphal?

Question for Quote Investigator: Walt Whitman’s landmark poetry collection “Leaves of Grass” was shocking to some of his contemporaries, and he was told by publishers, critics, and attorneys that his work required expurgation. Whitman consented to this censorship initially, but he became increasingly unhappy and angry with this interference over time. The following statement has been attributed to Whitman:

Damn all expurgated books, the dirtiest book of all is the expurgated book.

I have not been able to determine where or when Whitman wrote or said these words. Would you please help me?

Reply from Quote Investigator: There is good evidence that Walt Whitman made a statement very similar to the one above. Whitman died in 1892, and the earliest citation located by QI was published in 1906 by Horace Traubel who was a friend of the famous poet and his literary executor. Traubel published a volume about his experiences visiting Whitman a few years before the poet’s death titled “With Walt Whitman in Camden (March 28 — July 14, 1888)”. The book format was a series of dated journal entries, and the entry of Wednesday, May 9, 1888 recounted Whitman’s vivid remark about censorship. Boldface has been added to excerpts:¹

Damn the expurgated books! I say damn ’em! The dirtiest book in all the world is the expurgated book. Rossetti expurgated—avowed it in his preface: a sort of nod to Mrs. Grundy…

The phrasing reported by Traubel differed somewhat from the most common modern quotation, but QI hypothesizes that the modern statement was derived from this journal entry. The name “Rossetti” in the remark referred to William Rossetti who published an early expurgated edition of “Leaves of Grass”. The name “Mrs. Grundy” referred to an archetypal figure embodying prudish, priggish, and narrow-minded attitudes.

Here are additional selected citations in chronological order.