Quote Origin: Never Argue With Stupid People. They Will Drag You Down To Their Level and Then Beat You With Experience

Mark Twain? George Carlin? Yul Brynner? Jean Cocteau? Bob Gray? Dilbert? Scott Adams? Anonymous?

Illustration of a jester's hat from OpenClipart-Vectors at Pixabay.
Illustration of a jester’s hat from OpenClipart-Vectors

Question for Quote Investigator: Logic and careful reasoning are the ingredients of a constructive argument. Acrimony and irrationality are the elements of a fruitless argument. The celebrated humorist Mark Twain supposedly formulated the following cautionary remark. Here are two versions:

(1) Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!

(2) Never argue with stupid people because they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

Comedian George Carlin has also received credit. I am skeptical of both of these attributions, and I have never seen solid citations. Would you please examine this saying?

Reply from Quote Investigator: QI has been unable to find substantive evidence crediting this remark to Mark Twain or George Carlin. It does not appear on the Twain Quotes website edited by Barbara Schmidt,1 nor does it appear in the large compilation “Mark Twain at Your Fingertips” edited by Caroline Thomas Harnsberger.2

Scholar Matt Seybold of Elmira College and the Center for Mark Twain Studies examined this saying and concluded that “Mark Twain never said these words, nor anything resembling them”.3 George Carlin received credit many years after the quip was circulating.

QI conjectures that the quotation evolved over time. The Bible contains a thematically related passage in Proverbs 26:4. Here is the text from the New International Version. Boldface added to excerpts by QI:4

Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be just like him.

In 1878 April “The Daily Picayune” of New Orleans, Louisiana printed an adage depicting the underlying idea without attribution:5

To argue with a fool is to make him your equal.

In May 1878 “The Rochester Evening Express” of Rochester, New York printed another precursor while acknowledging an Ohio source:6

Don’t argue with a fool, or the listener will say there is a pair of you.—Cincinnati Breakfast Table.

QI has a separate article about a family of sayings incorrectly linked to Mark Twain which is available here: Never Argue With a Fool, Onlookers May Not Be Able To Tell the Difference.

In 1956 an Associated Press columnist spoke with the popular actor Yul Brynner who attributed a partially matching statement to prominent French artist Jean Cocteau:7

Yul said the greatest advice he ever received in life was given by the French writer Jean Cocteau, who told him:

“Never associate with idiots on their own level, because, being an intelligent man, you’ll try to deal with them on their level—and on their level they’ll beat you every time.”

The above statement used the word “associate” instead of “argue”, but within a few years the remark evolved toward the modern expression. In 1958 a columnist in “The Daily Tar Heel” of Chapel Hill, North Carolina used the word “argue”. The columnist also omitted Brynner’s name and attributed the words directly to Cocteau:8

As Jean Cocteau once said, “Never argue with an idiot, because being an intelligent man, you will argue with them on their level, and, on their level, they’ll beat you every time.”

In 1978 “The Memphis Press-Scimitar” of Tennessee printed an instance with a different attribution:9

Never associate with idiots on their own level because, being an intelligent person, you will try to deal with them on their level, and on their level they will beat you every time. — Bob Gray, Northeast Memphis Optimes

The expression continued to circulate in 1987 when it appeared in “The Kaplan Herald” of Louisiana. The connection to Cocteau was also recalled:10

IT’S TRUE — Never associate with idiots on their own level because, being an intelligent man, you’ll try to deal with them on their level — and on their level they’ll beat you every time. -JEAN COCTEAU

In 1993 an instance using the phrase “win with experience” appeared in the Usenet newsgroup comp.sys.cbm. The ellipsis occurred in the original text. The word “never” or “don’t” was omitted. No attribution was specified:11

… Argue with idiots, they drag you to their level & win with experience.

In March 1997 an instance using the phrase “beat you with experience” appeared in a message posted to the Usenet newsgroup aus.computers.mac. No attribution was given:12

Never Argue with idiots,
They drag you down to their level,
And beat you with experience!

In April 1997 a message posted to newsgroup alt.games.vga-planets suggested that the guidance had been circulating for years. The words “it’s” and “received” were misspelled:13

For what its worth…. This is advice I recieved years ago and wish I had followed.
“Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience”

In 1998 a columnist in a Kansas City, Missouri newspaper shared the saying with readers. No attribution was specified:14

The following funnies are from e-mail that people have fielded from the Internet and shared with me . . .
Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

In January 1999 the quip appeared in the Usenet newsgroup aus.jokes, as the eighteenth item in a list titled “Dilbert’s Words of Wisdom”. Dilbert is a U.S. comic strip authored by Scott Adams. Earlier versions of the list from 1998 did not contain the quip. Several items in the list were misattributed:15

18. Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

In June 1999 an instance in the Usenet newsgroup alt.games.starcraft used the word “moron” instead of “idiot” or “fool”:16

“Never argue with a moron, they’ll drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience.”

On June 2, 2009 a tweet attributed a different expression containing the phrase “Never argue with an idiot” to Mark Twain:17

@Spud31 Mark Twain (I think) said “Never argue with an idiot. People might not know the difference.”

On June 23, 2009 a tweet credited Twain with a hybrid expression:18

“Never argue with an idiot. They will beat you with experience and people listening in may not be able to tell the difference.” — Mark Twain

In July 2011 the crowd sourced website Goodreads credited Twain with a full instance using the phrase “stupid people”. Twain died in 1910, and this evidence was not substantive:19

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”
― Mark Twain

In 2012 a letter published in a Whitehorse, Canada newspaper employed an instance with “idiot” and mentioned the Twain attribution with skepticism:20

. . . another quote credited to Mark Twain, but its origin is really unknown: “Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.”

In 2013 a message in Usenet Newsgroup comp.os.linux.advocacy implausibly credited George Carlin:21

Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
-George Carlin

Matt Seybold is an Associate Professor of American Literature & Mark Twain Studies at Elmira College. In 2020 he wrote a valuable article on this topic. Seybold located the crucial citations in 1956 and 1958 together with other important evidence. He also discussed the friendship of Brynner and Cocteau.22

In conclusion, a precursor idea appeared as a proverb in the bible. The expression has been evolving for many years. In 1956 Yul Brynner credited Jean Cocteau with a partially matching statement. A closer match appeared in 1958, and a strong match occurred in 1993. The dubious linkage to Twain occurred many decades after his death. The attribution to George Carlin was also spurious.

Image Notes: Illustration of a jester’s hat from OpenClipart-Vectors at Pixabay.

Acknowledgements: Great thanks to Marian T. Wirth, Brian Zachary Mayer, Thayne Davidson Muller, Robert McMillan, AnxiousPony, and Jane Bella whose inquiries led QI to formulate this question and perform this exploration. Also, thanks to Matt Seybold for his pioneering research.

Update History: On March 16, 2024 the format of the bibliographical notes was updated. Also, the full article was placed on this website.

  1. Website: TwainQuotes.com, Editor: Barbara Schmidt, (QI searched the website for quotations containing the phrase “with experience” or the phrase “drag you”. No pertinent match was discovered), Description: Mark Twain quotations, articles, and related resources. (Searched January 28, 2023) link ↩︎
  2. 1948, Mark Twain at Your Fingertips by Caroline Thomas Harnsberger, (QI searched for quotations containing the phrase “with experience” or the phrase “drag you”. No pertinent match was discovered), Cloud, Inc., Beechhurst Press, Inc., New York. (Verified with search) ↩︎
  3. Website: Center for Mark Twain Studies, Article title: The Apocryphal Twain: “Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience”, Article author: Matt Seybold, Date on website: August 7, 2020, Organization description: The Elmira College Center for Mark Twain Studies was founded on December 31, 1982. The Center supports Mark Twain scholarship. (Accessed marktwainstudies.com on January 28, 2023) link ↩︎
  4. Website: Bible Hub, Article title: Parallel Verses of Proverbs 26:4, Translation: New International Version, Website description: Online Bible Study Suite. Bible hub is a production of the Online Parallel Bible Project. (Accessed biblehub.com on January 21, 2023) link ↩︎
  5. 1878 April 28, The Daily Picayune, (Untitled short item), Quote Page 4, Column 1, New Orleans, Louisiana. (Newspapers_com)1878 April 28, The Daily Picayune, (Untitled short item), Quote Page 4, Column 1, New Orleans, Louisiana. (Newspapers_com) ↩︎
  6. 1878 May 20, The Rochester Evening Express, Happy Thoughts, Quote Page 4, Column 2, Rochester, New York. (Old Fulton) ↩︎
  7. 1956 November 13, The Daily Messenger, Bald, But Not Frustrated by Hal Boyle. Quote Page 8, Column 6, Canandaigua, New York. (Newspapers_com) ↩︎
  8. 1958 January 15, The Daily Tar Heel, A National Lottery: Is It A Revenue Source? by Frank Crowther, Quote Page 2, Column 7, Chapel Hill, North Carolina. (Newspapers_com) ↩︎
  9. 1978 September 12, The Memphis Press-Scimitar, Factors Serves Notice On Elvis Bootleggers by Bill E. Burk, Quote Page 5, Column 5, Memphis, Tennessee. (Newspapers_com) ↩︎
  10. 1987 July 22, The Kaplan Herald, Sauce Piquante, Start Page 1, Quote Page 13, Column 1, Kaplan, Louisiana. (Newspapers_com) ↩︎
  11. 1993 December 12, Usenet discussion message, Newsgroup: comp.sys.cbm, From: Ben Dewberry @f272.n633.z3.fidonet.org, Subject: Zipcode Problem Solved. (Google Groups Search; Accessed August 8, 2020) link ↩︎
  12. 1997 March 7, Usenet discussion message, Newsgroup: aus.computers.mac, From: Shane Delforce @mugca.cc.monash.edu.au, Subject: Commonwealth Bank. (Google Groups Search; Accessed August 8, 2020) link ↩︎
  13. 1997 April 9, Usenet discussion message, Newsgroup: alt.games.vga-planets, From: Ken B. Anderson @ANL.GOV, Subject: Re: IRC Chat: Lukeofb. . . .. (Google Groups Search; Accessed August 8, 2020) link ↩︎
  14. 1998 July 9, The Kansas City Star, Internet can provide PG-rated amusement by Lewis W. Diuguid, Section: Neighborhood News, Start Page 1, Quote Page 16, Column 5, Kansas City, Missouri. (Newspapers_com) ↩︎
  15. 1999 January 20, Usenet discussion message, Newsgroup: aus.jokes, From: Mr. Funny Bone International @LineOne.Net, Subject: Words of Wisdom from Dilbert. (Google Groups Search; Accessed January 29, 2023) link ↩︎
  16. 1999 June 6, Usenet discussion message, Newsgroup: alt.games.starcraft, From: Chaos-san @geocities.com, Subject: Re: clarification on newbies. (Google Groups Search; Accessed January 29, 2023) link ↩︎
  17. Tweet, From: David D, @geopsychic, Time: 2:27 PM, Date: Jun 2, 2009, Text: @Spud31 Mark Twain (I think) said … (Accessed on twitter.com on January 29, 2023) link ↩︎
  18. Tweet, From: mwalkercreative @mwalkercreative, Time: 12:16 PM, Date: Jun 23, 2009, Text: “Never argue with an idiot. They will beat you . . .” (Accessed on twitter.com on January 29, 2023) link ↩︎
  19. Website: Goodreads, Article title: Mark Twain > Quotes > Quotable Quote Timestamp on first ‘Like’: Jul 08, 2011 11:13AM, Website description: Goodreads is a large community for readers that provides book recommendations; the site is owned by Amazon. (Accessed goodreads.com on Jan 21, 2023) link ↩︎
  20. 2012 November 9, Whitehorse Daily Star, Section: Letters To the Editor, Letter title: Denying the facts is simply ignorant, Letter author: Kevin Sinclair of Whitehorse, Quote Page 18, Column 5, Whitehorse, Yukon, Canada. (Newspapers_com) ↩︎
  21. 2013 October 17, Usenet discussion message, Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy, From: Crabbit Bampot @gmail.com, Subject: Early adopters struggle with Windows 8.1 update. (Google Groups Search; Accessed January 29, 2023) link ↩︎
  22. Website: Center for Mark Twain Studies, Article title: The Apocryphal Twain: “Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience”, Article author: Matt Seybold, Date on website: August 7, 2020, Organization description: The Elmira College Center for Mark Twain Studies was founded on December 31, 1982. The Center supports Mark Twain scholarship. (Accessed marktwainstudies.com on January 28, 2023) link ↩︎

Quote Origin: I Do Not Know What I Think Until I Read What I’m Writing

Flannery O’Connor? Graham Wallas? E. M. Forster? Inger Stevens? August Heckscher? Paul Samuelson? Shirley MacLaine? Joan Didion? E. L. Doctorow? John Gregory Dunne? Edward Albee? Wendy Wasserstein? William Faulkner? Virginia Hamilton Adair? Stephen King?

Question for Quote Investigator: The process of writing helps to clarify thoughts and ideas. For example, some novelists do not outline their plots in advance; instead, they spontaneously construct story arcs while writing. Here are two versions of a pertinent comment:

(1) I write to find out what I think.
(2) I don’t know what I think until I read what I write.

This remark has a humorous edge because thoughts are usually formulated before they are written down. This notion has been attributed to prominent short story writer and novelist Flannery O’Connor and to horror master Stephen King. Would you please explore this topic?

Reply from Quote Investigator: In 1948 Flannery O’Connor wrote a letter to her literary agent, and she included an instance of the saying. Boldface added to excerpts by QI:1

What you say about the novel, Rinehart, advances, etc. sounds very good to me, but I must tell you how I work. I don’t have my novel outlined and I have to write to discover what I am doing. Like the old lady, I don’t know so well what I think until I see what I say; then I have to say it over again.

O’Connor’s mention of an “old lady” indicated that she was referencing an earlier cluster of similar remarks. Here are two of the earliest instances:

1926: How can I know what I think till I see what I say? (Attributed to unnamed little girl by educator Graham Wallas)2

1927: How can I tell what I think till I see what I say? (Attributed to an unnamed old lady by novelist E. M. Forster)3

The two quotations above were about speaking instead of writing. A separate QI article about the family of sayings centered on oral expression is available here: How Can I Know What I Think Till I See What I Say?

This article will center on sayings about written expression. Below is an overview of this family of remarks.

1948 Jul 21: I don’t have my novel outlined and I have to write to discover what I am doing. Like the old lady, I don’t know so well what I think until I see what I say; then I have to say it over again. (Writer Flannery O’Connor)

1959 May 7: I have been writing down my thoughts about things—not for publication, but to find out what I’m thinking about. (Actress Inger Stevens)

1963: I did not really know what I thought until I read what I had written the next day. (Attributed to Journalist August Heckscher)

1969 Jan: How do I know what I really think until I read what my pen is writing? (Economist Paul Samuelson)

1976 Nov 18: Half the time I write to find out what I mean. (Actress and Author Shirley MacLaine)

1976 Dec 5: I write entirely to find out what I’m thinking. (Writer Joan Didion)

1981 Mar 31: You write to find out what it is that you’re writing. (Novelist E. L. Doctorow)

1982 May 3: I think you write to find out what you think. (Screenwriter John Gregory Dunne)

1983 Jun: I write the plays down to find out what I’m thinking about. (Playwright Edward Albee)

1985 Mar 17: I often write to find out what I’m thinking. (Playwright Wendy Wasserstein)

1989: I don’t know what I think until I read what I said. (Attributed to William Faulkner by Warren Bennis)

1994: I never know what I think about something until I read what I’ve written on it. (Attributed to William Faulkner by Tom Morris)

1995: I never know what I think until I read it in one of my poems. (Poet Virginia Hamilton Adair)

2005: I write to find out what I think. (Horror writer Stephen King)

Below are detailed citations in chronological order.

In 1949 “The Dictionary of Humorous Quotations” included an entry for a thematically related remark. QI has not yet found any substantive support for the listed attribution:4

WALPOLE, Horace, 1717–1797, English author, letter writer, and antiquarian.
I never understand anything until I have written about it.

In 1959 the Associated Press published a piece about actress Inger Stevens during which she employed a version of the saying:5

“But work isn’t everything. I want to take some courses at UCLA if I stay here. I do some painting, and I model with clay. Also, I have been writing down my thoughts about things — not for publication, but to find out what I’m thinking about.”

In 1963 the book “Celebrity Register: An Irreverent Compendium of American Quotable Notables” included an entry about journalist August Heckscher who employed the saying:6

He has been chief editorial writer for the New York Herald Tribune (leaving because “I got to the point where I did not really know what I thought until I read what I had written the next day”).

In January 1969 Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Samuelson published a column in “Newsweek” magazine forecasting business and financial trends for the coming year. Samuelson discussed his motivation for making predictions:7

Most important is the masochistic desire to make oneself climb out on a limb. How do I know what I really think until I read what my pen is writing?

In November 1976 the UPI news service published a piece about actress and memoirist Shirley MacLaine. She discussed her motivation for writing:8

“Writing a book is easier than not writing it, if you know what I mean,” she said. “Half the time I write to find out what I mean.”

In December 1976 author Joan Didion published an article in “The New York Times Book Review” titled “Why I Write” containing the following passage:9

Had I been blessed with even limited access to my own mind there would have been no reason to write. I write entirely to find out what I’m thinking, what I’m looking at, what I see and what it means. What I want and what I fear.

In 1981 “The Baltimore Sun” of Maryland printed an article about novelist E. L. Doctorow who employed a variant expression:10

In fact, Mr. Doctorow has begun a new novel, but he tersely declines to discuss it.

“I can’t tell you about it because I don’t know how. You write to find out what it is that you’re writing.”

In May 1982 journalist and screenwriter John Gregory Dunne used an instance while disclaiming credit:11

“I think you write to find out what you think,” says Mr. Dunne, “though that’s hardly an original thought. Writers basically work by instinct — I think you have only an inchoate sense of what you’re doing.

In September 1982 author Francine du Plessix Gray published in “The New York Times Book Review” an essay titled “I Write for Revenge Against Reality”. Gray credited Flannery O’Connor with a different phrasing of the saying:12

Question: Why do I go on writing, seeing the continuing anguish of the act, the dissatisfaction I feel toward most results?

Flannery O’Connor said it best: “I write because I don’t know what I think until I read what I say.”

In 1983 the periodical “Dramatics” printed a piece about playwright Edward Albee which included his answers to questions posed by high school students:13

“I’m not one of these playwrights who says now I must write a play about this or that, and then figures out a plot and characters for the play. The whole thing emerges in my consciousness, and I may keep it in mind for up to ten years before I write it down. To oversimplify, it could be said that I write the plays down to find out what I’m thinking about.”

In 1985 Associated Press printed an article about playwright Wendy Wasserstein which discussed her play “Isn’t It Romantic”:14

It’s a comedy that was born in anxiety. “I often write to find out what I’m thinking,” Ms. Wasserstein says. “Isn’t It Romantic” happened at a time when a girlfriend of mine got married. I was upset and couldn’t understand why.

In 1989 Professor of Business Administration Warren Bennis published the book “On Becoming a Leader”. He attributed the saying to the famous author William Faulkner who had died many years earlier in 1962:15

Faulkner said, ‘I don’t know what I think until I read what I said.’ That’s not just a joke. You learn what you think by codifying your thinking in some way.

In 1994 “True Success: A New Philosophy of Excellence” by Tom Morris also attributed the saying to Faulkner, but the phrasing was different:16

William Faulkner once said, “I never know what I think about something until I read what I’ve written on it.” Well, I’ve read Faulkner and often still don’t have a clue what he thought.

In 1995 “The New Yorker” magazine published an article about the poet Virginia Hamilton Adair who employed a version of the saying:17

“I’ve always written poems,” Virginia told me. “I never stopped. I never know what I think until I read it in one of my poems.”

In 2005 the well-known horror scribe typed a compact instance:18

I write to find out what I think, and what I found out writing The Colorado Kid was that maybe — I just say maybe — it’s the beauty of the mystery that allows us to live sane as we pilot our fragile bodies through this demolition-derby world.

In conclusion, there are two closely related families of sayings:
(1) I will know what I think when I hear what I said.
(2) I will know what I think when I read what I wrote

The first family was discussed in an article which is available here. This article has focused on the second family. Flannery O’Connor stated in 1948 that she had to “write to discover what I am doing”. She also credited an anonymous “old lady” with the following viewpoint: “I don’t know so well what I think until I see what I say”. The citations above indicate that the family of remarks about writing has been popular with novelists, playwrights, screenwriters, poets, and others.

Image Notes: Public domain illustration of a writing hand from “The Book of Knowledge” (1912) edited by Arthur Mee and Holland Thompson.

Acknowledgement: Great thanks to Arnold Zwicky and Mark Mandel whose remarks and inquiry led QI to formulate this question and perform this exploration.

  1. 1979, The Habit of Being: Letters of Flannery O’Connor, Edited by Sally Fitzgerald, Part I: Up North and Getting Home 1948-1952, Letter to: Literary agent Elizabeth McKee, Letter date: July 21, 1948, Start Page 5, Quote Page 5, Farrar, Straus, Giroux, New York. (Verified with scans) ↩︎
  2. 1926 Copyright, The Art of Thought by Graham Wallas (Professor Emeritus of Political Science at the University of London), Chapter 4: Stages of Control, Quote Page 106, Harcourt, Brace and Company, New York. (Verified with scans) ↩︎
  3. 1927 Copyright, Aspects Of The Novel by E. M. Forster, Chapter 5: The Plot, Quote Page 152, Harcourt, Brace and Company, New York. (Verified with scans) ↩︎
  4. 1949 Copyright, The Dictionary of Humorous Quotations, Edited by Evan Esar, Section: Horace Walpole, Quote Page 210, Bramhall House, New York. (Verified with scans) ↩︎
  5. 1959 May 7, The Austin Statesman, Bob Thomas (Associated Press), Quote Page A20, Column 2, Austin, Texas. (ProQuest) ↩︎
  6. 1963, Celebrity Register: An Irreverent Compendium of American Quotable Notables, Edited by Cleveland Amory with Earl Blackwell, Profile of August Heckscher, Quote Page 282, Harper & Row, New York. (Verified with hardcopy) ↩︎
  7. 1973, The Samuelson Sampler by Paul Samuelson (Paul Anthony Samuelson), Chapter 10: A Look Back, A Look Ahead, A Look Around, Essay: The New Year, Date: January 1969, Start Page 167, Quote Page 168, Thomas Horton and Company, Glen Ridge, New Jersey. (Verified with scans) ↩︎
  8. 1976 November 18, The Daily Dispatch, Shirley MacLaine remains a free spirit by Vernon Scott (UPI), Quote Page 53, Column 6, Moline, Illinois. (Newspapers_com) ↩︎
  9. 1976 December 5, The New York Times, Section: The New York Times Book Review, Why I Write by Joan Didion, Start Page 2, Quote Page 2, Column 4, New York. (ProQuest) ↩︎
  10. 1981 March 31, The Baltimore Sun, ‘Ragtime’ to riches: Non-writing is Doctorow’s neurosis by Randi Henderson (Sun Staff Correspondent), Start Page B1, Quote Page B4, Column 2, Baltimore, Maryland. (ProQuest) ↩︎
  11. 1982 May 3, New York Times, How John Gregory Dunne Puts Himself Into His Books by Michiko Kakutani, Quote Page C11, Column 5, New York. (ProQuest) ↩︎
  12. 1982 September 12, New York Times, Section: The New York Times Book Review, I Write for Revenge Against Reality by Francine du Plessix Gray, Start Page BR3, Quote Page BR46, Column 4, New York. (Newspapers_com) ↩︎
  13. 1983 June, Dramatics, Volume 54, Issue 10, Albee on the road by Marty Curtis, Start Page 3, Quote Page 19, Column 1, The Educational Theatre Association, Cincinnati, Ohio. (ProQuest) ↩︎
  14. 1985 March 17, The Journal-News, Wendy Wasserstein — A playwright’s progress by Michael Kuchwara (AP Drama Writer), Quote Page F8, Column 1, Nyack, New York. (ProQuest) ↩︎
  15. 1989, On Becoming a Leader by Warren Bennis, Chapter 2: Understanding the Basics, Quote Page 48, Addison-Wesley Publishing Company, Reading, Massachusetts. (Verified with scans; Internet Archive) ↩︎
  16. 1994, True Success: A New Philosophy of Excellence by Tom Morris PhD, Chapter 1: A Conception of What We Want, Quote Page 41, A Grosset/Putnam Book: G.P. Putnam’s Sons, New York. (Verified with scans) ↩︎
  17. 1995 December 25 , The New Yorker, Dancing in the Dark by Alice Quinn, Start Page 132, Quote Page 135, Column 1, Publisher Condé Nast, New York. (Online New Yorker archive of digital scans) ↩︎
  18. 2005, The Colorado Kid by Stephen King, Section: Afterword, Date: January 31, 2005, Quote Page 184, Hard Case Crime: Dorchester Publishing Company, New York. (Verified with scans) ↩︎

Quote Origin: Never Explain. Your Friends Don’t Require It, and Your Enemies Won’t Believe You, Anyway

Elbert Hubbard? Victor Grayson? P. G. Wodehouse? Benjamin Jowett? E. A. Isaacs? Apocryphal?

Question for Quote Investigator: Explaining one’s beliefs and motivations is typically worthwhile, but sometimes it seems to be futile. Here are two versions of a germane remark:

(1) Never explain. Your friends don’t require it, and your enemies won’t believe you, anyway.

(2) Never explain—your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe you.

U.S. aphorist Elbert Hubbard and British politician Victor Grayson have each received credit for this type of remark. Would you please help me to find a citation?

Reply from Quote Investigator: The earliest match located by QI appeared as an epigraph on the cover of the February 1904 issue of “The Philistine: A Periodical of Protest” edited by Elbert Hubbard. Boldface added to excepts by QI:1

Never explain: your friends don’t require it, and your enemies won’t believe you, anyway.

QI believes that Elbert Hubbard deserves credit for this quotation; however, it was not constructed ex nihilo. The previous year Hubbard was sufficiently impressed by another related expression attributed to a prominent scholar that he placed it on the cover of the March 1903 issue of “The Philistine: A Periodical of Protest”:2

Never explain, never retract, never apologize—get the thing done and let them howl!
—Rev. Dr. Benjamin Jowett

A separate QI article about the saying immediately above is available here.

Below are additional selected citations in chronological order.

Continue reading “Quote Origin: Never Explain. Your Friends Don’t Require It, and Your Enemies Won’t Believe You, Anyway”

Quote Origin: Never Retract. Never Explain. Get It Done and Let Them Howl

Benjamin Jowett? Nellie McClung? Elbert Hubbard? Lionel Arthur Tollemache? James Kay-Shuttleworth? Ralph Lingen? George Otto Trevelyan? Wilbur F. Storey? Frederic William Farrar? Benjamin Disraeli? John Arbuthnot Fisher? Anonymous?

Question for Quote Investigator: Accomplishing a difficult task when facing strong opposition takes a forceful personality. Here are three pertinent guidelines for persevering:

(1) Never retract. Never explain. Get it done and let them howl.
(2) Don’t explain, don’t argue, get the thing done and let them howl.
(3) Never explain, never apologize. Get the thing done and let them howl.

The first statement has been attributed to scholar Benjamin Jowett who was a Master of Balliol College, Oxford. The second has been ascribed to U.S. essayist and aphorist Elbert Hubbard. The third has been credited to activist Nellie McClung who successfully campaigned for women’s suffrage in Canada. Are any of this linkages accurate? Would you please explore this topic?

Reply from Quote Investigator: The earliest full match located by QI appeared in 1895 within an article in “The Journal of Education” of London by the English writer Lionel Arthur Tollemache. The piece presented Tollemache’s memories of Benjamin Jowett who had died a couple years earlier at age 76. Boldface added to excerpts by QI:1

On another occasion he said to me: “A friend of mine of great practical ability told me that he has laid down for himself three rules of conduct. Never retract. Never explain. Get it done and let them howl.” Jowett repeated these paradoxical maxims with a characteristic laugh, which seemed at any rate not to mark disapproval.

Jowett helped to popularize the remark, but he disclaimed credit for it. Hence, the name of the creator remains uncertain. QI believes the remark evolved over time, and it was assembled from preexisting fragments. Elbert Hubbard mentioned the saying, but he credited Jowett. Nellie McClung employed the third statement during a speech in 1924, but the saying was already in circulation.

Below are additional selected citations in chronological order.

Continue reading “Quote Origin: Never Retract. Never Explain. Get It Done and Let Them Howl”

Quote Origin: An Expert Is a Person Who Has Made All the Mistakes Which Can Be Made in a Very Narrow Field

Niels Bohr? Edward Teller? Werner Heisenberg? W. P. Northrup? Benjamin Stolberg? Harry M. Meacham? Eugene Kane? Anonymous?

Question for Quote Investigator: Expertise is often acquired by learning from a series of errors. Here are three pertinent statements whose meanings diverge. The similarities suggest that these remarks still belong in the same family:

(1) An expert is a person who has found out by his own painful experience all the mistakes that one can make in a very narrow field.

(2) An expert is someone who knows some of the worst mistakes that can be made in his subject and how to avoid them.

(3) I’ve made all the mistakes that are possible. The net result of that should be expert.

The first item has been attributed to nuclear scientist Edward Teller and Danish physicist Niels Bohr. The second item has been credited to German theoretical physicist Werner Heisenberg. Would you please explore this topic?

Reply from Quote Investigator: The earliest match for the first item known to QI appeared in “LIFE” magazine in 1954 within a profile of Edward Teller who ascribed an instance to Niels Bohr. Boldface added to excerpts by QI:1

But mistakes do not inhibit him. He likes to quote the dictum of Niels Bohr, the great Danish physicist, that, “An expert is a person who has found out by his own painful experience all the mistakes that one can make in a very narrow field.”

The earliest match for the second item known to QI appeared in a 1952 essay by Werner Heisenberg titled “Positivismus, Metaphysik und Religion” (“Positivism, Metaphysics and Religion”). Here is an excerpt translated into English:2

Many people will tell you that an expert is someone who knows a great deal about his subject. To this I would object that no one can ever know very much about any subject. I would much prefer the following definition: an expert is someone who knows some of the worst mistakes that can be made in his subject, and how to avoid them.

The earliest match for this general family of sayings located by QI appeared in “The Chicago Medical Recorder” in 1904 within an article by Professor of Pediatrics W. P. Northrup of New York University who had become adept at diagnosing and treating pneumonia in infants:3

My one admirer kindly spoke of me, he being in an amiable mood, as an expert in this diagnosis. “Yes,” I agreed, which took him aback, “I’ve made all the mistakes that are possible.” The net result of that should be expert.

Below are additional selected citations in chronological order.

Continue reading “Quote Origin: An Expert Is a Person Who Has Made All the Mistakes Which Can Be Made in a Very Narrow Field”

Quote Origin: The Moment You Think You Understand a Great Work of Art, It’s Dead for You

Oscar Wilde? Robert Wilson? Apocryphal?
Question for Quote Investigator: Major works of art are complex, ambiguous, and difficult to interpret. The vitality of a piece is compromised when a single meaning is imposed on it. Apparently, an artist once said something like this:

The moment you understand a great work of art, it’s dead for you.

This remark has been attributed to the famous Irish wit Oscar Wilde and the prominent U.S. theater director Robert Wilson. I am skeptical of the linkage to Wilde. Would you please help me to find the correct ascription together with a citation?

Reply from Quote Investigator: The earliest match known to QI appeared in “The New York Times” in May 1990. The article reported on a new experimental production of Shakespeare’s “King Lear” in Frankfurt, Germany helmed by Robert Wilson who was described as “the P. T. Barnum of the avant-garde”. Wilson employed the quotation while discussing “King Lear”. Boldface added to excerpts by QI:1

“The work is a hall of mirrors, and the kaleidoscope of reflections intrigues me. Another reason I want to do the play is because we don’t understand it. The moment you think you understand a great work of art, it’s dead for you.”

QI has found no evidence that Oscar Wilde employed this expression. The quotation does not appear in “The Wit & Wisdom of Oscar Wilde” compiled by Ralph Keyes,2 nor does it occur in “Oscar Wilde in Quotation: 3,100 Insults, Anecdotes, and Aphorisms” compiled by Tweed Conrad.3

Below are additional selected citations together with a conjecture about the genesis of the misattribution to Oscar Wilde.

In 1894 Oscar Wilde contributed a collection of witticisms titled “Phrases and Philosophies for the Use of the Young” to a student periodical. Below are three of the items. One remark suggested that understanding a religion via science could lead to its death:4

A really well-made buttonhole is the only link between Art and Nature.

Religions die when they are proved to be true. Science is the record of dead religions.

The well-bred contradict other people. The wise contradict themselves.

Robert Wilson’s comment about art was noticed by a journalist at “The Observer” of London. In May 1990 the quotation appeared in a section called “Sayings of the week”.5 Later, in December 1990 the newspaper listed Wilson’s statement in “Sayings of the year”:6

The moment you think you understand a great work of art, it’s dead for you. — Robert Wilson, theatre director.

QI hypothesizes that the misattribution to Oscar Wilde was due to a misreading of two adjacent entries in the 1993 reference “The Columbia Dictionary of Quotations”. The first entry was for a quotation by Oscar Wilde and the next entry was for a quotation by Robert Wilson:7

123 Bad art is a great deal worse than no art at all.

OSCAR WILDE (1854–1900). Anglo-Irish playwright, author. “House Decoration,” lecture, 1882 (published in Aristotle at Afternoon Tea: The Rare Oscar Wilde, 1991).

124 The moment you think you understand a great work of art, it’s dead for you.

ROBERT WILSON (b. 1941). U.S. theater director, designer. Quoted in: International Herald Tribune (Paris, 22 May 1990).

One or more readers of the above passage were attracted to the name of Oscar Wilde whose fame eclipses that of Wilson. These readers carelessly reassigned Wilson’s quotation to Wilde. This behavior fits a known error mechanism for the generation of misattributions.

In 2003 the quotation with a correct attribution continued to circulate in the “Star Tribune” of Minneapolis, Minnesota:8

TODAY’S QUOTE
“The moment you think you understand a great work of art, it’s dead for you.”
— Robert Wilson, U.S. theater director.

In 2006 “The Village Voice” of New York published “The Whole Ball of Wax — Can Art Change the World? A Holistic Theory” by Jerry Saltz which credited the quotation to Oscar Wilde:9

These latter-day Cartesians act like coroners, regularly pronouncing dead that which they don’t approve of or can’t explain. They say the author is dead, painting is dead, history is dead, and so on. As Midgley points out, ‘Imaginative-systems don’t suddenly perish and they don’t go away until the things they were invented to deal with have been resolved.’ Or as Oscar Wilde remarked, ‘The moment you think you understand a work of art it’s dead for you.’

In 2012 the “Family & Home Examiner” published a set of statements about art:10

It can be beautiful. It can be ugly. It can move you to feel a certain way and provoke you. Today’s quotes are about art and how it makes us think.
. . .
“The moment you think you understand a great work of art, it’s dead for you.”
-Oscar Wilde

In conclusion, Robert Wilson should receive credit for this quotation based on the 1990 citation in “The New York Times”. The attribution to Oscar Wilde is unsupported.

Image Note: Picture of the 1889 oil painting titled “The Starry Night” by Vincent van Gogh.

Acknowledgement: Great thanks to Isaiah Campbell whose inquiry led QI to formulate this question and perform this exploration. Campbell pointed to the citation in “The New York Times” and was skeptical of the attribution to Oscar Wilde.

  1. 1990 May 20, New York Times, ‘Lear’ Girds for a Remarkable Episode by Arthur Holmberg, Quote Page H7, Column 1, New York. (ProQuest) ↩︎
  2. 1996, The Wit & Wisdom of Oscar Wilde, Compiled by Ralph Keyes, Note: Quotation with phrase “dead for you” was absent in this reference, HarperCollins Publishers, New York. (Verified with hardcopy) ↩︎
  3. 2006, Oscar Wilde in Quotation: 3,100 Insults, Anecdotes, and Aphorisms, Topically Arranged with Attributions, Compiled and edited by Tweed Conrad, Note: Quotation with phrase “dead for you” was absent in this reference, McFarland & Company Inc., Jefferson, North Carolina. (Verified with scans) ↩︎
  4. 1894, The Chameleon, Volume 1, Number 1, Edited by John Francis Bloxam, Article: Phrases and Philosophies for the Use of the Young by Oscar Wilde, Start Page 1, Quote Page 1, Gay and Bird, London. (British Library website; accessed bl.uk on November 10, 2021) link ↩︎
  5. 1990 May 27, The Observer, Sayings of the week, Quote Page 18, Column 2, London, England. (Newspapers_com) ↩︎
  6. 1990 December 30, The Observer, Sayings of the year, Quote Page 16, Column 7, London, England. (Newspapers_com) ↩︎
  7. 1993, The Columbia Dictionary of Quotations, Edited by Robert Andrews, Topic: Art, Quote Page 61, Column 1, Columbia University Press, New York. (Verified with scans) ↩︎
  8. 2003 January 19, Star Tribune, Today’s Quote, Quote Page F1, Column 2, Minneapolis, Minnesota. (Newspapers_com) ↩︎
  9. 2006 September 5, The Village Voice, Section: Art, The Whole Ball of Wax — Can Art Change the World? A Holistic Theory by Jerry Saltz, Unspecified Page Number, New York, New York. (NewsBank Access World News) ↩︎
  10. 2012 May 17, Family & Home Examiner, Section: Quotations Examiner, Quotes about art, Unspecified Page Number, U.S.A. (NewsBank Access World News) ↩︎

Quote Origin: I Don’t Care Who Writes a Nation’s Laws . . . If I Can Write Its Economic Textbooks

Paul Samuelson? Andrew Fletcher of Saltoun? Percy Bysshe Shelley? Mary Shelley? Sylvia Nasar?

Question for Quote Investigator: The cultural impact of economic thought has been enormous. Apparently, a famous economist once said something like this:

I don’t care who writes a nation’s laws if I can write its economic textbooks.

Would you please help me to identify this economist and find a citation?

Reply from Quote Investigator: Nobel-Prize winning economist Paul Samuelson published the perennially popular textbook “Economics” beginning in 1948. Twenty editions have appeared during subsequent decades.

In 1990 Samuelson wrote the foreword to “The Principles of Economics Course: A Handbook for Instructors”, and he employed the quotation. Boldface added to excerpts by QI:1

“Poets are the unacknowledged legislators of the World.” It was a poet who said that, exercising occupational license. Some sage, it may have been I, declared in similar vein: “I don’t care who writes a nation’s laws—or crafts its advanced treaties—if I can write its economic textbooks.” The first lick is the privileged one, impinging on the beginner’s tabula rasa at its most impressionable state.

Paul Samuelson’s phrasing was humorously tentative, but QI believes that he deserves credit for the remark under examination. When Samuelson crafted his remark he was deliberately alluding to a family of previous remarks about the powerful cultural influence of music and poetry.

Below are additional selected citations in chronological order.

Continue reading “Quote Origin: I Don’t Care Who Writes a Nation’s Laws . . . If I Can Write Its Economic Textbooks”

Quote Origin: A Committee Should Consist of Three People, One of Whom Is Always Sick and the Other Is Always Absent

Herbert Beerbohm Tree? Hendrik Willem van Loon? E. V. Lucas? Charles Haddon Spurgeon? Robert Oliver Jones? Lord Palmerston? Cedric Hardwicke? Robert Copeland?

Question for Quote Investigator: Committees are common tools for decision making, but detractors have highlighted their inefficiency, unimaginativeness, and inflexibility. Here are four examples from a pertinent family of humorous remarks:

(1) The best committee is a committee of three with two of them ill in bed.

(2) A committee should consist of three people, two of whom are absent.

(3) Nothing is accomplished by a committee unless it consists of three members, one of whom happens to be sick and another absent.

(4) The ideal committee is a committee of two when one of them is absent.

English theatre manager Herbert Beerbohm Tree, English humorist E. V. Lucas, and Dutch historian Hendrik Willem van Loon have each received credit for quips of this type. Would you please explore the provenance of this family of jokes?

Reply from Quote Investigator: The earliest match located by QI appeared in an October 1878 article published in “The Western Daily Press” of Bristol, England. Prominent religious figure Charles Haddon Spurgeon spoke at the annual session of the Baptist Union held in Leeds. He discussed the desirability of continual progress which he emphasized by using the catchphrase “drive on”. Boldface added to excepts by QI:1

He liked committees for such work. Oh, yes; but the best committee was a committee of three, and two of them ill in bed. (Laughter.) Let the third man take the reins, and so drive on.

Spurgeon deserves credit for popularizing this joke. Also, based on current evidence he initiated this family of quips although it remains possible he was repeating an existing remark.

Herbert Beerbohm Tree received credit for an instance in 1920. Hendrik Willem van Loon used an instance in 1927. E. V. Lucas employed an instance in 1931. Others have delivered versions of this popular jest.

Below are additional selected citations in chronological order.

Continue reading “Quote Origin: A Committee Should Consist of Three People, One of Whom Is Always Sick and the Other Is Always Absent”

Quote Origin: Science Is a Differential Equation. Religion is a Boundary Condition

Alan Turing? Arthur Eddington? Andrew Hodges? Robin Gandy? John D. Barrow? Dermot Turing? Apocryphal?

Question for Quote Investigator: Apparently, the pioneering computer scientist Alan Turing once compared scientific knowledge to a differential equation and suggested that religion specified a boundary condition for the equation. I have not seen a precise citation. Would you please explore this topic?

Reply from Quote Investigator: In 1983 British mathematician Andrew Hodges published a biography titled “Alan Turing: The Enigma”. Hodges stated that in March 1954 Alan Turing sent four postcards to his friend and colleague Robin Gandy. The second postcard (partially shown below) contained the following lines. Boldface added to excerpts by QI:1

Messages from the Unseen World

III. The Universe is the interior of the Light Cone of the Creation

IV. Science is a Differential Equation. Religion is a Boundary Condition.

Arthur Stanley

The postcard also contained the following line written sideways in the left margin:

? Does the gravitation constant decrease ?

Turing’s message presented a playful interpretation of contemporary cosmological theories. The line “Arthur Stanley” referred to English astronomer Arthur Stanley Eddington, and the beginning line perhaps alluded to Eddington’s 1929 book “Science and the Unseen World”. Gandy stated that he and Turing had been discussing Eddington’s book titled “Fundamental Theory”.2

QI conjectures that Turing’s statement was an analogy. A differential equation may have many possible solutions. A boundary condition is an extra constraint that reduces the number of possible solutions and sometimes specifies a unique solution. The postcard statement suggested that there were many possible universes that were compatible with the latest scientific knowledge. Religious beliefs provided additional assumptions that further constrained the set of possible universes.

Below are additional selected citations in chronological order.

Continue reading “Quote Origin: Science Is a Differential Equation. Religion is a Boundary Condition”

Quote Origin: Everything Will Be OK in the End. If It’s Not OK It’s Not the End

John Lennon? Oscar Wilde? Fernando Sabino? Paulo Coelho? Domingos Sabino? Farah Khan? Anonymous?

Question for Quote Investigator: Here are three versions of a popular remark that reflects an unwaveringly upbeat perspective on life:

(1) Everything is OK in the end; if it’s not OK it’s not the end.
(2) Everything is going to be fine in the end. If it’s not fine it’s not the end.
(3) Everything will be all right in the end; so if it is not all right, it is not yet the end.

This saying has been attributed to the well-known Irish wit Oscar Wilde, the famous English musician John Lennon, the prominent Brazilian writer Fernando Sabino, the best-selling Brazilian author Paulo Coelho, and other individuals. The statement has also been credited to the 1999-2005 U.S. television series “Judging Amy” and the 2011 U.K. film “The Best Exotic Marigold Hotel”. I have not seen any convincing evidence identifying the origin. Would you please explore this topic?

Reply from Quote Investigator: The earliest match located by QI appeared in the 1988 Brazilian Portuguese book “O tabuleiro de damas” (“The checkerboard”) by Fernando Sabino. The author ascribed the saying to his father Domingos Sabino. Here is the key passage followed by a translation into English. Boldface added to excepts by QI:1

O melhor, talvez, que me lembre, foi o que me disse um dia em que me encontrou entregue à aflição de espírito: “Meu filho, tudo no fim dá certo. Se não deu, é porque ainda não chegou ao fim.”

Perhaps the best thing that I can remember is what he said to me one day when he found me in the grip of a mental affliction: “My son, everything works out in the end. If it didn’t, it’s because it hasn’t come to an end yet.”

The earliest attributions to Oscar Wilde and John Lennon occurred posthumously. Thus, those linkages were probably spurious. The first attribution to Paulo Coelho occurred many years after 1988. Evidence supports the presence of the adage in “Judging Amy” and “The Best Exotic Marigold Hotel”, but the saying was already in circulation.

Below are additional selected citations in chronological order.

Continue reading “Quote Origin: Everything Will Be OK in the End. If It’s Not OK It’s Not the End”